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I hate this sort of cherrypicking, TSeeker you only included the verses that support your belief that the Kingdom of God and its inhabitants are a future reality. Jesus Christ didn’t say “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God”, but ‘sinful, dirty, corruptible-flesh hating, long-to-die’ Paul did and you build an entire doctrine on THAT man’s word.
John 1:12-13
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which WERE born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[WERE, WERE, WERE, WERE, WERE!!! Past tense!]
Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and IN THE KINGDOM and patience OF JESUS CHRIST, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Written as John’s testimony BEFORE he hears the Voice as a trumpet, BEFORE he is taken to Heaven to SEE spiritual things!!! “And immediately I was in the SPIRIT” WOW! John must be both a physical and spiritual being, unless he was temporarily made wholly spirit and then flipped back to a physical body. The Father didn’t flip Jesus back and forth: “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.” Psalm 16:10]. JESUS appeared first to Mary Magdalene in the SPIRIT and later to the disciples IN THE FLESH, FLESH, FLESH after ascending to the Father! {John 20:14-31} Perhaps if they had “stood without at the sepulchre weeping” instead of going “away again unto their own home”…who knows?! Nonetheless she was 1st!!!
Matthew 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. [They had IT according to JESUS and lost IT]
Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God IS COME unto you.
Matthew 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots GO INTO the kingdom of God before you.
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
They did indeed SEE Jesus coming into his kingdom in the following verse…no chapter breaks in the original!!!
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Matthew 17
JESUS declared that his kingdom and its children already exist on earth upon his return:
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the END OF THE WORLD [AGE]; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather OUT OF HIS KINGDOM all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13
THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH!
Matthew 11:12
And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent TAKE IT by force.
Sharonjorgen,
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born (#1080) of the Spirit IS spirit.
1080 gennáō – properly, beget (procreate a descendant), produce offspring; (passive) be born, “begotten.”
They were or are begotten, the Saints of God must become spiritual fetuses before they can be born into the Household of God.
First we are physical fetuses and then born into flesh and blood, Christ came to shows us the way to be born as Spirit. At His resurrection He was born Spirit, showing us the way.
Christ was born once as a human then born again as Spirit! It can not be clearer.
We must be begotten by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as a Spiritual fetuses and then in the resurrection the Saints are spiritual born into the Household of God.
If you can not understand what was presented, if you want to stay with catholic doctrine or one of the thousands of divided groups and follow their dogma that is up to you. I can only write what I read and I write what I am given to understand.
Tseeker wrote “At His resurrection He [Christ] was born Spirit, showing us the way. Christ was born once as a human then born again as Spirit! It can not be clearer.” Like a W.V. river…Apparently you believe that Jesus wasn’t God until he was resurrected? And you question my understanding!
GOD IS A SPIRIT that was made FLESH according to John
[John 1:1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the WORD WAS GOD.
[John 1:14] And the WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[John 4:24] GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Sharon,
Jesus Christ walked in the garden with Adam and Eve, He wrote the Commandments on two tables of Stone with His finger, Christ is the God of the Old Testament and came to show us the Father.
Christ was the WORD before Creation and all Creation was made by and for HIM.
He stepped out of eternity out from Spirit and willingly became human, He could be and was killed and ceased to exist for 3 days and 3 nights, His Father resurrected Him as God as Spirit. He is now on the right hand of God the Father’s Throne in the third heaven.
Jesus Christ was God in the Flesh but was mortal, all the works He did were by the Father.
Every thing Christ did and spoke was shown Him by the Father, He did the Father’s WILL and not His own.
If Christ was not God in the Flesh then His death could not pay for the sins of all mankind.
You wrote it above He was made flesh! The spiritual mechanics of how this was accomplished, I believe, can only be known when we are Spirit.
Christ died human, He was resurrected GOD, How this can be I know not.
How then, Tseeker, did Jesus meet with Elijah and Moses in HIS kingdom if he was NOT yet born of spirit?!!! There were also 3 MORTAL human witnesses…agreed? Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he CANNOT SEE the kingdom of God. {John 3:3}…
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
[They did indeed SEE Jesus coming into his kingdom in the following verse…no chapter breaks in the original]
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was TRANSFIGURED before them: and his face did shine AS THE SUN, and his raiment was WHITE as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
This encounter is reminiscent of the book of Revelation — [14] His head and his hairs were WHITE like wool, as WHITE as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;…[16] and his countenance was AS THE SUN shineth in his strength.
Mealy-mouthed Paul says “I don’t want to brag…oh yeah, I been to the 3rd heaven”, but unlike Apostle John he can’t even say whether in spirit or body
must not have made much of an impression BUT he follows up with “And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of SATAN
to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. {2 Corinthians 12:7}
Did you also notice that he can’t resist using the words EXALTED ABOVE MEASURE 2x!!
“the abundance of the revelations” he claims (You can almost hear the voice of Jon Lovitz from Saturday Night Live, “Yeah that’s right I, I, I gots an abundance while I was in the 2nd, err third heaven, yeah that’s right the top one).
Here is testimony that is certain:
[10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
[11] Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven ekklēsiais which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
[12] And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
[13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
[14] His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
[15] And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
[16] And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
[17] And when I saw him, I FELL AT HIS FEET AS DEAD. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
[18] I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 1
Sharon,
you, am 123 and Mike are blinded by false doctrine, no matter what is written or how it is said none can understand, I told am 123 when I say dog he hears cat.
You do not like Paul, a man Jesus Christ chose to take the Good News of the coming Kingdom of God to the gentiles, how can I deal with that??
Paul was expressing what he saw was so real he could not tell if he was on earth or in heaven — and you call him mealy mouth??
If you do not value Paul why are you even conversing with me?
Sharon, read the born again article again then get on your knees and ask our Father if it be the truth or a lie. Don’t trust your own self or some other.
I do not search out what other men have taught then copy it, what I write comes from the Bible and Prayer. There is not a middle man between my Father and I. What I hold as TRUTH comes from above. Every human I have ever trusted has disappointed me —I trust no man.
C
TS, sorry to hear that “Every human I have ever trusted has disappointed me — I trust no man.”
My life has been filled with trustworthy people, even complete strangers during the few times i’ve been stranded. Humanity at its best impresses me and though imperfect and not always doing what I want (i.e., disappointing me), so many people are AMAZING. My own Mom heads the list as the most loyal, thoughtful, generous person on Earth. I am honored to be her daughter; she has NEVER disappointed me and even though my choices at times confound her…her support is solid.
Whereas indisputably corrupt men in 325 AD at the Council of Nicea cobbled together THEIR choice of writings for THEIR benefit under the cover known as ‘the bible’ and demanded acceptance upon threat of death. Not surprising since THEIR prime author agreed to the use of force, even murder…even calling upon SATAN to do the deed!!
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Corinthians 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Romans 15:18 I will make the Gentiles obedient in word and deed
/spirit/2014/02/the-unholy-spirit-2-2484852.html
Sharon,
Let me attempt to make my point clearer. Sometimes when moving fast it only make sense to me.
are there some that have a good heart, yes, do they make mistakes you bet!
I have been in extremely difficult situations quite a few times in my life, even those that love me were not very helpful, did they stick by me, yes.
almost every time I trust the advice of even loved one, it does not work out. It is not based upon the Word of God.
The only Word that I now trust is what I read in God’s Word and only after prayer and much study. We are to lean not into our (or others) understanding.
You must admit, of 100 commentators or contributors on BIN what two are even in 50% agreement. Who should I trust?
I stand by my articles posted on BIN — until I am shown to be wrong by my Father, and then I will change.
Almost no one seems to grasp the value of logic and logic is what I use to prove all things.
The disagreements will increase until the pope pulls all back under the authority of Rome.
my best to you
Sharon, the solid, strong, support in the presence from your mom is a great blessing to have, especially in the times we live. You’ve recieved grace & goodness, that’s always good to hear.
Amen Truthseeker!
Your response reminds me of Christ’s attitude toward Judas.
Look who was in charge of the groups $ bag. Hmmm…
Were all their eggs in one basket?
Christ chose to look to & Trust Father instead of Judas.
Christ didn’t worry about the $ for the group.
He gave the outcome to his Father, had faith & rested.
Like you said faith is trust. Trust is believing. Right on!
Trusting God is rest, there’s joy & peace at the core of believing God.
Believing Trusting God pleases Him & He issues the ability to us to do so.
I hear you about being in a jam, getting pressured & needing advice with not much
resolution coming from others because their words were not based upon the Word of God.
Christ Trusted Father in all his challenges. So should we. He lives in us.
I do believe there is Power to a believing husband & believing wife relationship that no other relationship has. As they seperate from the world together & constantly put off the ol man & put on Christ, the new man based on God’s Word as the standard reference point for Truth, at a certain point will trust each other because Father backs up His Word that lives with His Spirit in His people. God sets this relationship apart from others. It symbolizes Christ’s relationship with us, how he treats & cares for us Right now
Love, peace & joy pass over understanding.. Love Covers…
The religious hypocrites were called children of the devil by Christ himself. As far as I know, he never called anyone else that. This was after they TRIED to set him up with a judgment situation, to be exact, the woman, caught in adultery. He said the one of you that is without sin throw the first rock. The context of sin here is adultery. They questioned his identity, at which point, he questioned theirs.
THERE COMES A TIME….
The mathematical logic God used in Creation… sing praise to Him.
Truthseeker, your logic in your study’s… sing praise to Him.
I’ve never seen born again like this. Great Word study! Thanks again.
The process of Spiritual maturity and the walk to wholeness came to mind a lot reading your study.
Wholeness at the return of Christ for us, made possible by Christ’s perfect sacrifice, judged at the tree, the stake that completely satisfied Father’s Righteousness.
You briefly mentioned “fall away”. Would you elaborate a bit? Does this reference Father removing His Holy Divine Seed, His gift of Holy Spirit based upon sin ?
Satan is the creator of the CON, the lie; he wants every one professing to be Christian to believe they are already born again into the Kingdom of God, “they have it made!” They are saved now and forever and can never fall away.
Love the way you concluded.
Father’s personal presence dwelling inside !!!
What do you think of the pattern of doctrine, reproof, correction of…?
Romans doctrine
First & second Corinthians reproof
Galatians correction
Ephesians doctrine
Philippians reproof
Colossians correction
Natsal
Thanks as always for you comments.
Your last question is long I will get to it with another comment later, but–falling away.
As the paper showed, when given the Holy Spirit of the Father the person becomes a Spiritual fetus. During the salvation process which is the time God spends bringing us to spiritual maturity nothing can take us from God’s hand. God will not reject us, Satan and his angels can only tempt us, but we ourselves can at any point reject the Holy Spirit and in effect abort ourselves. Only we our selves can end our salvation process, Jesus Christ promised to never leave us, as long as we repent and return Christ will always be there for us. Remember the parable of the prodigal son.
So, as many believe in this little saying “once saved always saved” it is not really accurate.
We are as good as in the kingdom as long as we seek God and His Righteousness and repent when we stumble. But if for some reason our attitude gets hardened and we get side ways with our Father, the Holy Spirit can not abide in an unconverted person or one that refuses to repent.
Pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape all of these things and join our brothers and Jesus Christ in the Kingdom.
Truthseeker, I appriciate you being accountable for your words.
Refreshful, going the extra mile your “never” in a crowd!
Do you mean…falling away as refusing to repent in a certain area of our life where we habitually, deliberately are sin ing over & over again? Reverting back to the state of spiritual death before believing Christ in an area of life? Like the dog returning licking it’s own vomit. Like lust for instance. The lust pattern kicks in to amplify the desire for gratification, when a person agrees with lust and sins, then spiritual control is lost in disobedience (priority 1; Disagree, break harmony & reject) in our covenant with the flesh, the Flesh controls us “always”, dominates and the tail leads the head around in Moses analogy
Or do you mean…falling away, turning the back, rejecting God, walking completely away from His Love, never returning, period
Neglecting, refusing to completely repent & stop sin ing in a certain area of our life is like living in a perpetual state of grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit (states of sin) we’re spiritualy dead with Father in those areas..meaning the enemy rules. We’re commanded not to quench or grieve our fellowship with Father, 1 Thess 5 & Ephes 4. Interesting that relationships are being spoken of here. Bitterness is listed later like you listed hardness earlier.
I hear you about the prodigal son, I understand, found myself in the pig pen before. The stench bathed my nostrils. Terrible place to be.
Prayin
natsal
The word translated church is Ecclesia or Ekklesia Strong’s defines it as “a calling out” I have also found others that translated it as — “the called out ones from the world to God”.
Many are called – few, repeat FEW, are chosen — the chosen “ARE WILLING”, they are willing to obey. They believe for sure – BUT the willing believe to the point they will obey every word of God.
God the father upon repentance, baptism and then receiving the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands, begins the process of salvation in the Willing that the Father has Called.
The willing are still human still have a full measure of carnal human nature, if a root of bitterness begins to grow in them against God, if that person begins to judge God and gets to the point where repentance is no longer possible, the Holy Spirit ceases to exist in that person.
That person has fallen away:
that person has lost their opportunity for salvation. The only unforgivable sin is against the Holy Spirit, when the Holy Spirit which is the very Divine Holy Righteous Nature of the Father
i.e. His SPIRIT, is regarded as worthless and of no value God considers that person to be chafe to be burned in the fire.
The Prodigal son did not reject the Holy Spirit or God but was pulled away by the lust of his flesh, wine, women and more wild women caught his attention. When he ended up at the bottom of the slop barrel, he woke up – and God the Father welcomed him back.
I am very familiar with the Prodigal son.
Got it Truthseeker, your clear.
I like your comment connecting a willing heart to the Prodigal’s son, Amen.
Father searches to & fro looking for a willing heart that will respond to Him.
David’s heart responded to God so much God titled David a man after His own heart.
Some in the south call falling away, backsliding into hell.
Few understand the word hell.
Lotta spiritualism masquerading as religion in the name of Christ.
The point where repentance is no longer possible. I imagine that’s gotta be a damn hard place to be, damn hard place to live. Completely numb, calloused over, conscience seared burnt by the brand of the advasary.
The Prodigal’s son could also be termed The Father’s heart.
Tools for decision
“when he came to himself” very interesting words used in scripture.
He was talking to himself reasoning & made a decision. He got up & left where he was.
Headed home. World says you can’t go home, it’s going backwards. Sometimes in life, it takes going backwards so we can go forward.
The moment his Father saw him, he had compassion, he took off running to him, hugged him, Loved him without blaming him, without shaming him, Loved him without condemning him, without lecturing him.
The self-righteous brother was so caught up in his own works that blinded him from seeing what was hidden in plain sight…. the nature of his Father’s generosity and love. The Father’s response to his complaint. You never left me, all I have is yours. But it’s meet necessary to reJoice.
Your brother died but is restored to himself (repented heart)
The Father’s heart!
Think of the humble son returning, dealing with the shame of his folly.Think how amazed and awed and even further humbled he would be at the Father’s response. He would love his Father even more, wouldn’t his devotion be deepened.
The Prodigal’s son walked, entered forgiven into his Father’s house (his Father’s heart) and celebrated.
The Father’s heart Loved without guilting his son. The Prodigal’s heart is God’s heart!
Compassion identifies true repentance for an offence.
God the Father’s heart is the standard for Parents to parent their kidos.
Parents (me first) Speak Words of Life & Speak Words of Love “over” your children whatever their age, all your life. In a very personal way you are prophesying over them.
Life n Death are in the power of the tongue…what’s in abundance on the heart will gravitate to the tongue.
So am I, familiar with the Prodigal’s sons.
Thanks Truthseeker!
natsal
you got it!
The love and forgiveness AND the patience’s of our Father passes all understanding. It is beyond me but I hope to have those fruits of His Spirit working in me to full measure some day.
No matter how “dirty” we become, upon deep repentance, our Father will clean us up and give us the gift of immortal life. It does not get any better then that.
When you look at the spiritual from the physical, man was created with a “back door” like the creators of software for computers. They can look in side to see everything in your computer.
So it is with God, He can see completely our nature, He can see how we make decisions and why and even what values those decisions are based upon. When He said David was a man after his own heart, God meant it. David thinks like God and has the same values.
This is what you and I are striving for. In our deepest most “being” we must have the same values as our Father and Jesus Christ. Nalsal God is willing and we will make it.
Amen & Amen Truthseeker!!!
What Wise Words.
Christ paid in full our spiritual debt so we can cast down the fig leaves & stand completely NAKED before Father unashamed upon Christ’s merit, not our own!
Naked to our deepest most “being”, just as Adam & Eve before the fall.
If we see ourselves before Father still wearing the fig leaves, we’re feeling unforgiven (shame, blame, guilt) & trying to pay some of our spiritual debt ourselves.
Christ paid our debt in FULL.
Claim the Truth!
We now can Love without focusing on finding fault in others.!
We can Love without accusations!
Jesus Christ could have recoiled at the woman caught in adultery.
THE FIRST THING HE DID WAS PROTECTED HER LIFE, then he told her to go and sin no more.
InJoy your rest!