removed
removed
Anyone can join.
Anyone can contribute.
Anyone can become informed about their world.
"United We Stand" Click Here To Create Your Personal Citizen Journalist Account Today, Be Sure To Invite Your Friends.
Before It’s News® is a community of individuals who report on what’s going on around them, from all around the world. Anyone can join. Anyone can contribute. Anyone can become informed about their world. "United We Stand" Click Here To Create Your Personal Citizen Journalist Account Today, Be Sure To Invite Your Friends.
LION'S MANE PRODUCT
Try Our Lion’s Mane WHOLE MIND Nootropic Blend 60 Capsules
Mushrooms are having a moment. One fabulous fungus in particular, lion’s mane, may help improve memory, depression and anxiety symptoms. They are also an excellent source of nutrients that show promise as a therapy for dementia, and other neurodegenerative diseases. If you’re living with anxiety or depression, you may be curious about all the therapy options out there — including the natural ones.Our Lion’s Mane WHOLE MIND Nootropic Blend has been formulated to utilize the potency of Lion’s mane but also include the benefits of four other Highly Beneficial Mushrooms. Synergistically, they work together to Build your health through improving cognitive function and immunity regardless of your age. Our Nootropic not only improves your Cognitive Function and Activates your Immune System, but it benefits growth of Essential Gut Flora, further enhancing your Vitality.
Our Formula includes: Lion’s Mane Mushrooms which Increase Brain Power through nerve growth, lessen anxiety, reduce depression, and improve concentration. Its an excellent adaptogen, promotes sleep and improves immunity. Shiitake Mushrooms which Fight cancer cells and infectious disease, boost the immune system, promotes brain function, and serves as a source of B vitamins. Maitake Mushrooms which regulate blood sugar levels of diabetics, reduce hypertension and boosts the immune system. Reishi Mushrooms which Fight inflammation, liver disease, fatigue, tumor growth and cancer. They Improve skin disorders and soothes digestive problems, stomach ulcers and leaky gut syndrome. Chaga Mushrooms which have anti-aging effects, boost immune function, improve stamina and athletic performance, even act as a natural aphrodisiac, fighting diabetes and improving liver function. Try Our Lion’s Mane WHOLE MIND Nootropic Blend 60 Capsules Today. Be 100% Satisfied or Receive a Full Money Back Guarantee. Order Yours Today by Following This Link.
| Online: | |
| Visits: | 1,689,584,882 |
| Stories: | 8,396,873 |
Whistler Blowers, Insiders
Yes I know Yashua Anointed and He is The Truth.
yes2truth
did you bother to read?
We have had this discussion before, The 10 Commandments stand and were carried over in to the New Covenant and you will be judged by them. You and Mike Clinton are hiding behind “Grace” which means kindness, the kindness of God. Grace or kindness does not mean license to ignore the Law.
If you read this short paper you will see the side or terms of the contract pertaining to Israel never changed, can you show me scripture that says the terms of the New covenant were changed for Israel’s?
God’s terms did change, but there is no mention of removing the 10 Commandments.
The 10 Commandments is eternal Spiritual LAW.
Ps 119: 151 Thou art near O Lord and ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE TRUTH!
“172 My tongue shall speak of thy Word, for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.
You asked a question and I answered it – completely and unambiguously.
Only the 10 commandments, you say? What about the 11th commandment, and the 12th? etc.
Are they not binding, also? Why do people only speak of ‘God’s law as being the 10 first ones?
Churches say to tithe. that is not in the first 10 commandments, yet, they say it is still binding today. If they say the rest (the 11th commandment and on) really are not that important, including the dietary, sexual, land-use and animal-treatment laws, then, why do they say ‘except the tithing one, we like to keep that one, still”, isn’t that total hypocrisy?
The ten commandments and what…what else, you say?
And Who is this God? What is His stated, repeated Name? The One who made the immutable laws of life did not only make them for the Jews and the commandments do not stop at the 10th one. He always says, ‘and all my laws, statutes and judgments’ and we all know that He did not do away with the 11th one and the rest.
Yahushua went by all of them. Perfectly. He is stated to be our ONLY example to follow.
To be acceptable to Him and His Father, IAUE. His father is not a Being named ‘God’ either.
We need to define our terms, Who is the God we are talking about? What laws, and what commandments? Why do you always say only 10 need to be obeyed, when that book says all the laws and all the statutes, not stopping at any 10?
If you expected me to contradict you on this article, you completely misjudged me, Truthseeker.
Desert owl
I did then misjudge, I am sorry,
Apology accepted.
yes2truth Not even Yashua Annointed placed himself above the Law, as you do with this comment, but obeyed and followed His Fathers commands. Are you then greater than Him?
Here I agree solely with the basic Truth that the ten Commandments were NOT nullified, that’s it.
y2t I’m flabbergasted by the amount of self righteousness you are revealing here and will forthwith finally distance myself from you.
Desert Owl, you disappoint me. There was me thinking you were a Grace saved Christian, but I was wrong.
yes2truth
Can you disprove the fact that the 10 Commandments are still included in the New Covenant, that they remain in it today??
The 10 Commandments not only remain as a key part of the New Covenant but God in His Grace which means ‘kindness’ gives those He now ‘Calls’ the Seed of His Spirit and by that Spirit His Saints can begin to live by God’s Holy Law and according to His WILL.
The Holy Spirit impregnates the one Called with the Holy Spiritual Divine Nature of God the Father. The Father’s Holy Spirit in a Called person gives that person the beginnings of the Divine Sinless Nature. The Holy Spirit is the indwelling power of God that begins to lead a Saint of God to the righteous life Christ came to lead us into.
You will need scripture saying the Law was removed as a responsibility of the Children of Israel.
Yes the works of the Law leading to Christ are no more. There are no more sacrifices, washings, etc, that is work! It cost money, took time and was very involved.
Is it work not to murder someone? No rational person can call the 10 Commandments a laborious work! — the Commandment is to NOT DO IT! Not doing something requires no work.
I would love to hear back!
Yes2Truth, your comment here baffles me. In your comment of 27 July you yourself agreed that
the ten commandments have not been done away with, but implanted in you, so you follow because you want to. In this article Truthseeker just explains the contract/agreement between the Father and His people.
We are saved, given faith in Yashua Annointed, by grace alone. NOT BY WORKS. When we, again by Grace alone, receive the Holy Spirit of Yashua Annointed, the commandments become an integral part of us, like they where an integral part of Him. His Holy Spirit within us thus enables us to follow His will with joy and gratitude.
@ Desert Owl
You said:
“We are saved, given faith in Yashua Annointed, by grace alone. NOT BY WORKS.”
Correct and that’s all there is to it. Works = obedience to The Law.
“but implanted in you, so you follow because you want to.”
Correct, so where is obedience in this arrangement? Why would someone who is doing something of his own volition have the need to be told what to do by the Law?
You have not grasped the reality of what it means to be Born Again if you think obedience is still necessary.
Like Truth Seeker you are still under the school master like a child.
yes2truth, seems we start arguing in circles again.
Your words in July: “Yes, I keep (hold) the commandments because I have the commandments. They are an integral part of me – internalised. You have no understanding of this Spiritual concept. I keep the commandents because I want to keep them.”
I said exactly the same a bit differently. So what is there to argue about? Nothing really. Basically we all agree that Yashua Annointed did not nullify His Fathers commandment (10), but fulfilled it and by Grace gives us the ability to do so too.
@ Desert Owl
No, there is no argument and there are no circles other than in your confused mind.
I obey no one and I obey no Law. I follow Yashua Anointed as His friend and brother, that’s all, and I place all my faith in Him for my salvation. This Spiritual arrangement is above The Law.
You are in agreement with Truth Seeker and you cannot be in agreement with him and me for he is a Judaiser and one who attempts or strives to obey The Law.
yes2truth repost : Not even Yashua Annointed placed himself above the Law, as you do with this comment, but obeyed and followed His Fathers commands. Are you then greater than Him?
Here I agree solely with the basic Truth that the ten Commandments were NOT nullified, that’s it.
Desert Owl, you have a serious lack of understanding.
Yashua Anointed LOWERED Himself from His Godly status to become a flesh man and He kept The Law because The Law was still in force on everyone including Him.
After His death and resurrection the Law was NO MORE for those Born into Him as His brothers and friends. The Law has no hold over Born Again sons and daughters of God, because they do not need the law.
He has ascended into Heaven and has raised us up with Him by Him giving us His Spirit. You must get your head around the reality and Truth.
If the Law is still in effect what did His death and resurrection achieve? Answer NOTHING.
yes2truth Please show us the Scripture that says “the Law was NO MORE”, since the quotes below testify to the opposite.
Jeremiah 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Matthew 5:17 (KJV)
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mathew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Crosby (y2t) wrote:
Question: “If the Law is still in effect what did His death and resurrection achieve?”
Crosby’s answer: “NOTHING.”
The answer of the written Word: “SALVATION for mankind.”
That’s about as stark a contrast between two answers as exists in this Universe. Please do take the time to think before you respond Crosby. Or is that asking too much.
@ Desert Owl
The Law is still binding on the lost and unsaved, but not on those Born of God.
Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.
Only living under The Law can condemn a man, for there is no Grace in The Law. Breaking The Law is what condemns a man, nothing else, yet Paul states clearly that there is NO condemnation for those in Yashua Anointed and living under His Grace.
The Law and The Prophets under The New Covenant is LOVE under GRACE, NOT OBEDIENCE UNDER THE LAW. Which is no new covenant at all, because the Godhead always wanted love, but fallen man was incapable of loving God.
Are you still fallen Desert Owl, or are you a SAVED son of God?
What you must understand is the likes of Rotten Beef and Lies Seeker are in a worse condition than the unsaved, for the unsaved do not profess to know God and His Way.
@ Rotten Beef
Yes SALVATION through faith and belief in Yashua Anointed alone and an inner desire to follow Him – VOLUNTARILY.
“Please do take the time to think before you respond Crosby. Or is that asking too much.”
I don’t have to think, for my answers all stem from first hand knowledge, being a Spirit led believer in Yashua Anointed, so I’ll leave ALL the thinking to you.
yes2truth If you stand on just one leg (one piece of Scripture) you’re out of balance. This becomes clear when you call others by negative names. Love under Grace excludes judgement of others.
Whether I’m still fallen or saved is not for you to decide, but the Father. Since He sealed me with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, I know I’m saved and have everlasting life to look forward to.
@ Desert Owl,
“Since He sealed me with the Gift of the Holy Spirit, I know I’m saved and have everlasting life to look forward to.”
Not if you keep invoking The Law. Everytime you invoke The Law you kill Grace and trample over Yashua Anointed’s sacrifice. Think about this and repent asap.
This is a deadly serious business and I would not waste my time on Rotten Beef or Lies Seeker because they appear to be lost causes, but you seem to be different.
I am not judging you, you judge yourself and need no assistance from me. And you’re not fallen, you have been called, but you’re now free to make the right decisions.
I suggest you do an in depth study of Galatians and see what The Law keepers were doing to the early churches.
PS I stand on the foundation laid by Yashua Anointed not on my legs whether it be one or two legs.
yes2truth please help me understand, since what you say doesn’t make sense to me.
Once you say :”I keep my hope in Yashua Anointed so I am as pure as He is. That means I am sinless and if sinless what hold does The Law have over me? Answer, NONE.”
Then you say: “Yes, I keep (hold) the commandments because I have the commandments. They are an integral part of me – internalised.”
Once you stand on 1 John 3:9, one born of God cannot sin.
Then again you tell me to repent asap for “invoking” the Law by agreeing to 10 commandments of God.
If I am born of God like you, I cannot sin, yes? If i cannot sin, then I didn’t sin by agreeing with this article and have nothing to repent of, right?
Desert Owl
You said:
Once you say :”I keep my hope in Yashua Anointed so I am as pure as He is. That means I am sinless and if sinless what hold does The Law have over me? Answer, NONE.”
I am not saying it, The Holy Scriptures are saying it. Why are you separating my words from John’s words?
“Then you say: “Yes, I keep (hold) the commandments because I have the commandments. They are an integral part of me – internalised.”
I hold them as precious i.e. to be kept hold of or possessed i.e. internalised. I now have a an inner desire to keep them, but failure to do so makes no difference, because it’s my dead body of sin that sins, not me. I am a new creature i.e. sinless residing in a DEAD body of sin that occasionally sins.
“Once you stand on 1 John 3:9, one born of God cannot sin.”
I stand on Yashua Anointed’s foundation – His death and resurrection not on 1 John 3:9.
1 John 3:9 is just an explanation of where I am in Him.
“Then again you tell me to repent asap for “invoking” the Law by agreeing to 10 commandments of God.”
No you don’t just agree, you attempt to obey them like lies seeker – that is Judaism.
“If I am born of God like you, I cannot sin, yes? If i cannot sin, then I didn’t sin by agreeing with this article and have nothing to repent of, right?”
If you agreed with this article then you are in agreement with lies seeker and you cannot be in agreement with with 1 John 3:9 nor can you be in agreement with me unless you repent.
No one who invokes The Law can say he has nothing to repent of, because The Law will always reveal his sins. This is why I am no longer under The Law – The Law is within me not over me.
yes2truth you claim I’m attempting to keep the commandments. How do you arrive at that conclusion?
Starting this comment I did not argue against what Truthseeker wrote. Then I said Yashua did not nullify the 10 Commandments, which is in agreement with His words in Scripture. That is what I agree with, His words, His Spirit.
If it so happens that Truthseeker is on the same wavelength with what he says, who am I to argue against him – I would be denying Yashua, which I can’t do, because He filled me with His Spirit and put His law within me, not over me.
If you disagree with this, that is your baby.
To all commenters and readers:
This might help a few of you to better understand exactly what you have on your hands in Mr. Y2T…
He stipulates that The Father and The Son actually NEED our worship and praise and glory, and without it, They would cease to exist. Y2T has told me this himself on more than one occasion.
He also informed me that it is impossible for him to utter falsehood, since whichever words he utters or writes instantly become the TRUTH merely by virtue of the fact that he uttered them, since he is a ‘brother’ of ‘Yashua Anointed.’
Y2T states emphatically that large portions of the Scriptures are hopelessly corrupted, and that where Scripture contradicts his personal doctrine, this is only a result of the supposed corruption of the written Word by evil Jesuits.
Y2T has painted himself into an impregnable fortress of circular logic and hopelessly warped reasoning, the likes of which I have never encountered in any other man.
Desert Owl
“yes2truth you claim I’m attempting to keep the commandments. How do you arrive at that conclusion?”
I am not claiming anything, I am stating it as fact and Truth. You have said here on this thread that you are in agreement with Lies Seeker. By that admission that makes you someone who endeavours to keep The Law just as he does.
A True Believer living under His Grace would admonish Lies Seeker for the Judasing Law keeping illegitimate that he is.
“Starting this comment I did not argue against what Truthseeker wrote. Then I said Yashua did not nullify the 10 Commandments, which is in agreement with His words in Scripture.”
But that is precisely what He did do – He did nullify The Law by nailing The Law to the cross. He became the fulfillment of The Law. There is no Law keeping under His Glorious Grace. You cannot be under Grace and under the Law. However, The Law IS still binding on the lost and unsaved hence not one jot or tittle of it will pass until Heaven and Earth pass away at the end of The Millennium. Then The Law will gone forever.
“That is what I agree with, His words, His Spirit.”
Unfortunately you do not understand His words – you appear to have a blind spot.
“If it so happens that Truthseeker is on the same wavelength with what he says, who am I to argue against him – I would be denying Yashua”
Nonsense, Lies Seeker is only on The Devil’s wavelength as a Judaiser and that makes you one of his cohorts.
Now repent if you know what’s good for you.
@ Rotten Beef,
You’ve been thinking again.
repost y2t I’m flabbergasted by the amount of self righteousness you are revealing here and will forthwith finally distance myself from you.
Thanks Beef,
Now it starts to make sense, I tried my best with yes2confusion, up is down with him.
I know it is impossible to get agreement on everything among men, even the Apostles had disagreements, but this was frying my brain.
Let us let the Creator sort this one out.
No Desert Owl you have just been found out or found wanting.
Unfortunately you’re just another of the many on that wide path to destruction (spiritual ruin) with your two satanic buddies Rotten Beef and Lies Seeker.
Many are called, FEW are chosen.
Truthseeker, esq.
That’s what we’ll have to start addressing you as, since your new angle of approach entails a crash-course in contracts law and the interpretation thereof. It’s a good angle.
Obviously, you don’t have to sell me on the endurance of the Law. Sold. So here are a few quotes I pulled just to highlight – for the sake of further clarity (hopefully). You wrote:
“The Holy Spirit is given only to separate individuals as they are called, not to the whole nation.”
I would argue that the Spirit IS given to the WHOLE Nation of Israel, as it exists in the dispersion. I am unconvinced that those living in the LAND of Israel at present have any legitimate claim to descent from the Tribe of Judah. There is very compelling evidence in support of both arguments. I simply do not know. But if Judah actually remains dispersed, even as the other tribes are, then the members of the Tribe of Judah (themselves being ignorant of their identity) may well be experiencing the call and the measure of the Spirit that we are discussing. If those living in the land right at the moment are a counterfeit, then no one knows for certain who is and who is not a member of the Nation of Israel, as verified by bloodline descent. The fact is that there has been enough time since the tribes were dispersed, that it is conceivable that every man, woman, and child on the planet, could (theoretically) trace their roots to one or another of the tribes.
“Salvation is a life time procedure requiring the resurrection as the final act of completion.”
I like it. I believe this to be a true statement. This distinction is almost never given the thought and the consideration it deserves.
“The New Covenant is still in the name of the Children of Israel only and never included mankind.”
This should be written in two-hundred foot tall neon letters. This is the point that Christians refuse to acknowledge. The Apostle Paul teaches that in order to abide in the Vine we must become grafted into the native root. Evangelical Christians are trying to convert without themselves first having ‘converted’ to Israel (though definitely not to Judaism).
“…the entire gentile world will receive the good things of God only as they are passed down through Israel.”
To this I would add – ‘Even as they BECOME Israel.’ But again, this is a point about which none of us can be certain: As the gentiles become Israel and are grafted in, is it so that they were always Israel, and were simply ignorant of their roots? And a more important question is probably this: After such a grafting in has been completed… does it really even matter whether or not the gentile was a gentile or a lost Israelite? My belief is that it probably does not matter, considering what is written about where this is leading…
So the Apostle Paul:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Messiah Immanuel.
Hi Beef,
Hope things are going your way,
It finally came to me that the Covenants are simply contract law, our nation’s contract law came from the Bible, our law is based upon the Bible.
Since 1964 everything I have done was by a contract. I am not an attorney nor am I an expert in contracts but I do understand them. They have saved me and they have shot me in the head. LOL. I have drafted thousands.
When you breakdown both Covenants it is plain as day, which I did in the article.
Here is why I said the Holy Spirit is individual and goes not to the whole body.
To receive the Holy Spirit I find God the Father must first specifically call that person and that called person must be willing to heed the call, each of us has a free will so we can reject the call. The Spirit comes only to those willing, that is our part.
If they accept and are drawn to Christ, if they do start walking so to speak in His direction they will be lead to repentance and then to baptism. Each individual person must repent and must be baptized, then and only then can they receive the Holy Spirit by the Laying on of hands. The Holy Spirit according to what I read can only come into a sinless person, we are sinless only after baptism. Thus if you have not taken these steps you can not receive the Holy Spirit.
From this I can only see God the Father giving His Spirit on an individual person by person basis, conversion is a personal conversion not a group activity. I know 3000 in one day at the beginning, I believe that is to match the 3000 lost as Moses began the 40 year Exodus.
Remember too the Father’s Spirit is the Father’s Spiritual DNA, if you accept the physical comparison: the Father’s Divine Spirit Nature, God the Father is not giving His Spirit in a shotgun manner. The Angels do not have the Fathers’ spirit only Christ and now the Saints.
I hope this clears up what I was trying to say, if not let me know, I will give it another shot.
On the Israel thing of who is who, did you read the piece I did a while back titled “The time of Jacob’s Trouble and the two witnesses”?? it is if I remember right, 20 pages.
I started in Genesis and finished in Revelation showing scripture by scripture where they came from and who is who.
Do you know how to get to the list of articles I have posted? if so it is in three parts.
To your last comments, when all is said and done, none will be male or female, Jew or gentile, we will be in the Family as Sons or we will be NOT.
You and I agree in the basics, I would like to know it all, but for salvation knowing it all is not required. To state what is required in one word — meekness.
I enjoyed this, we will talk again, thanks.
Truthseeker,
You said:
“Each individual person must repent and must be baptized, then and only then can they receive the Holy Spirit by the Laying on of hands. The Holy Spirit according to what I read can only come into a sinless person, we are sinless only after baptism. Thus if you have not taken these steps you can not receive the Holy Spirit.”
I dispute this based upon Scripture and based upon personal experience.
Regarding Scripture, in chapter 2 of Acts, there was no laying on of hands and yet they were baptized by the Holy Spirit.
Regarding personal experience, early on in my Christian walk, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit without having anyone laying hands upon me (I was actually alone). In my personal experience, the best description I can give it was it was like being zapped with electricity, but without any pain.
Anyway, I have not heard you speak of this, do you speak/pray in tongues? I do. Do you see this as a result of being baptized by the Holy Spirit?
All of this brings up a very good unrelated topic to the headline here anyway — and that is baptism.
I am interested to know all of your thoughts on whom, exactly, should be sought after to perform baptisms. In the New Testament, baptism is performed by the ‘presbuterion’ — which translates more or less as ‘elder.’ Finding green shoots to the legitimate vine is difficult enough, but by what criterion are we to determine who is and who is not the ‘presbuterion’?
This is another one of those topics which will yield as many varying opinions as there are people asked, but the topic actually doesn’t come up that often. Who are to be the baptizers? Who is to lay their hands?
Truthseeker, on this specific statement I have to agree with am123, now that he pointed it out.
The Holy Spirit comes from the Father, not from man and He is the One who decides when, how and to whom to dispense it. It’s not for us to decide it can ONLY be dispensed through the hands of man.
It can happen that way, yes, but it isn’t the exclusive way. With that reasoning the Catholic church fell into error.
Guys,
Lots of questions, I will attempt to answer them.
First in Acts 2 That was the very first time the Holy Spirit was given to the Church (The Called out Ones) it was God the Father that sent His Spirit to the 12 Apostles on the Day of Pentecost. And then to the 3000.
Christ was never in the presents of a Spirit Filled converted person while on earth in the flesh.
The Apostles were not converted and really understood little until they were given the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
Over in Acts 8 the Disciples were still in the learning curve, it shows with baptism alone the Spirit is not given.
Can a person receive the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands, under some conditions I am sure.
am123 I do not speak in tongues, I read this as speaking in human languages for the purpose of transmitting spiritual knowledge only.
As far as seeing results: yes the Spirit opens your mind allowing the understanding of Spiritual knowledge plus the answer to pray, the answer for physical healing and protection. Also, at baptism most will find Satan is not happy with you — trials begin !
My son at around 1 1/2 was very sick and looking at an operation on his ears, my wife was very much against my beliefs, I ask if I could call an elder for an annotated cloth, she finally said yes.
As I got the elder on the phone and my son said “I am hungry”, sat up and the problem was over. Since then even my wife has been healed time after time and still is not baptized even today. If she has been called, so far her answers is ” I am not willing as yet, maybe later”.
I will stop here to add, today is God’s Sabbath soon I will drive for over and hour to fellowship with 4 others that believe as I do. One is a minister, unpaid, that works for a living. As I expect real persecution to start soon on those that keep the Sabbath and the Commandments I will not go any further then this.
As to who can perform the laying on, the Bible to my knowledge, does not say as hard doctrine that it must be an elder of God. From what is written the flock is small, I suppose in some cases where an elder is not available a converted man could perform it. As in the case of my wife, if she requested baptism and it was impossible get her to an elder I would both baptize and lay my hands on her. In all cases with God it is the attitude that matters.
Yes, I agree it is God the Father who decides who will receive His Spirit. The laying on of hands, to my mind, only gives the Spirit to one that is called. An elder can not really search the mind so he could lay hands on an unconverted person and that person will not receive the Spirit. Towards the end in Paul’s day many were coming in to the church unconverted and causing trouble.
I am not holding myself out as the all knowing one that is holier the thou, when a beautiful girl passes by I must repent ASAP. I will say what I believe is the truth and if I come to see it was wrong I will admit it. The name I use is what I am after, I seek the truth. I firmly believe what Christ said, “You shall know the TRUTH and the truth shall make you free”.
I am free! I speak what I understand boldly.
If this is not clear, I will try again, I have to leave now, I will be back on in the afternoon.
Ps,
I will state this as fact; the catholic church is not and never has been of God.
Truthseeker: Not only in Acts 2 but also in Acts 10 there was no laying on of hands for the Holy Spirit to be poured out.
Furthermore the people in Cornelius house weren’t even baptized when they received the Holy Spirit, as they were Gentiles.
So there is no “must” and no “steps to take” before one can receive the promise – only faith in Yashua Annointed, the Words He spoke.
For me it came through Psalm 81:8-10, in private, as it happened to am123.
Just some more random thoughts on the baptism of the Holy Spirit:
Beef wanted to know who do we think should be sought after to perform baptisms. That’s easy—seek after the Holy Spirit! But of course, I know you’re looking for how does one find an elder. I agree with Truthseeker that what is most important is the heart or attitude of the believer seeking God. And I don’t think a formula should be sought, thinking that an elder is absolutely necessary. If you do believe that an elder is necessary, your faith is limiting God. If you believe that God will baptize you with the Holy Spirit one way (through an elder) or another (without an elder), your faith opens up more opportunities for God to work through. If you hunger for it, God will satisfy your hunger and reward your faith. So I agree with desert owl on this issue and contend that trying to dictate one way to receive the Holy Spirit can lead to legalism.
And just to bring it home with an analogy: in the Old Testament, sacrifice offerings were brought to the Temple and they were washed. I believe this corresponds to us in the New Testament being washed in the water of the Word first. We have to read and study the Word to clean off all the worldly concepts and misconceptions we had before coming to the LORD. Back to the Old Testament sacrifices, after the washing, in the case of a burnt offering, the priest would take the offering and lay it upon the brazen altar to be burned in the fire. This can correspond to an elder laying on of hands and the fire of the Holy Spirit coming upon the believer and the Holy Spirit sanctifying us through the fire of the Holy Spirit. That is all well and good, and God is happy to work that way. But He is not limited to that “formula”. Coming off the boat, there was no Priest of course to present Noah’s sacrifices to the LORD. Yet, God accepted Noah’s sacrifices. Ditto for Abraham’s sacrifices and other examples in the Old Testament where no Priest mediated sacrifices to the LORD.
So the moral of the story is God will meet us wherever our faith and walk is. God looks upon our heart. If we are determined to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit one way or another, God will make a way for us to receive it one way or another. Don’t limit God by limiting your faith!
A good rest is half the work, i read somewhere. A Blessed Sabbath to all those who observe. A rest & seperation from the work world I look forward to each week. Relaxing, reading this study & these comments stirred up a number of things in me. “As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.” Thanks for the fresh air of each of you handlin yourselfs civilly. Some sites I’ve seen, folks don’t. Using insight & knowledge they’ve recieved to Lord over others to control discussions. Fervently arguing callin it midrash. “But he giveth MORE grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth (makes war against, opposes) the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. ” With Truthseekers definition of meekness in mind (A complete surrender of your will to God’s Will) a little word study on the word MORE will knock your socks off. Only translated once as more, usually translated greater. God Giveth Greater Grace to the humble, the meek. It is bound to a number of things, the greatest is Love. “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these 3; but the greatest of these 3 is charity.” Wagons-Ho, Love is greater than (faith) believing, greater than hope (hope is elpise; confident expectation not a grit your teeth & pine for)
Amen, the 10 Commandments are Alive & powerful. I am guilty of stubbornness. God’s Word is life, it is priority one, the standard for living. With clinched fists in my soul, I hold onto what I believe until God’s Word proves different. I was one that believed Christ’s life, death & resurrection fufilled all, “a done away with” believer all my walk with Father till a couple years ago. Things started changing. The 10 to me are the balance of authority & freedom. To me they define human freedom in terms of morality, privacy, property, life, and authority in general. Establishment principles for a nation. To me they imply the principle of Nationalism. Respect for peoples property, privacy & life should be the norm, the standard for a nation. This study brought to mind & helped me understand this statement I have herd from 2 different sourses recently; The entire Bible is about COVENANT! It’s about a marriage contract, a “ketubah”. It’s all about a husband and a wife. That’s how it starts, that’s the way that it ends. If we would understand the whole concept of marriage and marriage contracts, we’d understand the Bible.
Truthseeker many a football game have been won in the last quarter of play. In the thinking of the players all the events of the previous 3 quarters combined doesn’t matter. I like the saying “its not so much how we start but how we finish the race.” Your study’s here have been especially good to me.
I too am in the 4th & final quarter of my term & like you are zealous for my Fathers Will.
His LovingKindness leads. When its all over said & done what will be left standing. Love.
All without exception that we have seen, done, given, said & typed won’t mean a thing unless it was done motivated by Love. You know, Love NEVER fails, NEVER returns void. Christ died Loving & rose Loving. Thank you for living outside of yourself, gifting your study’s. They have slapped my face, made me think, challenged my believing & helped me more than you know. Love never dies.
Natsal,
You are very kind, I thank our Father for giving me the gift of being able to put His Word out as a reminder to you. It is not me doing any thing, I can take no credit. In college freshmen English out of 11,000 I was 2nd from the bottom.
One caveat, prove all thing your self, do not take my word or anyone’s, only what you personally have proved as truth is of value. Your job is to study to understand and then apply.
May God bless you with an even deeper understanding and closer walk with Him. l
Desert Owl,
Ask yourself this question, up to this point only Jews were called, if Cornelius would have asked Peter for baptism and the Holy Spirit, would any of the Apostles baptized a gentile??
Jesus Christ did not even want to help the gentile women that wanted her daughter healed,
He did due to her faith.
This is God’s way of showing He now is also calling gentiles, read verse 28. Up until this time gentile were unclean and had no part with God. The Apostles would never have touched one.
This is another time that the so called cart was put before the horse to make clear what God is now doing.
These are all God’s rules, they are not the 10 Commandments, God can make any exception He deems necessary. There is only one thing God can not do — SIN.
Yes2truth.
I do not know you, I hold no grudge, I do though strongly oppose your views on the Law of God. As you are well aware.
The 10 Commandments were given to Bless not curse. You and others hold it as a curse that Christ came to remove from off our backs. He removed only our debt of death by His Death.
If Christ came to remove it and leave the converted man to simply live out his life as a friend of Christ, why has Christ admonished so strongly that fruit must be born from our lives? The example in Matthew 21 of the cursed fig tree shows Christ demands a return on everything He created, including man. In Matthew 3: 1 – 12 Christ is showing if we do not bring forth good fruit we will be cast into the fire, referring to the Lake of Fire.
From what measure do we determine Good Fruit? How do we judge what is good?
Christ makes the point in many places and many ways His Saints will bring forth good fruit.
In Galatians 5: 22 the Fruits of the Spirit are listed and back in verse 19 the works of the flesh.
The works of the flesh are in fact the breaking of the 10 Commandments and the Fruits of the Spirit are the results of keeping the Commandments.
And the Death of Jesus Christ made possible the giving of God the FATHER’S own personal Holy Spirit, His Divine Spirit Nature impregnated in us giving finally to us the Spiritual ability to reject the transgression of God’s LAW, SIN, and actually bear the spiritual fruit of His HOLY SPIRIT in our lives.
Christ is our High Priest and when we do sin HE asks for mercy and kindness (grace) for us from our Father, if it were impossible for a Spirit filled converted person to sin why then do we need a High Priest? Hebrews 4 : 14 – 16.
yes2truth I can not talk you into anything, I can not prove a thing to you, but our Father can.
This is a very important point that effect much, if you have never fasted I highly recommend
it. No water or food for 24 hours coupled with much prayer.
Am123 I have a question. When you speak in tongues is it understandable? As in a language you have never known before? Please elaborate I am most curious.
God bless thank you.
The language is called gibberish.
Quick comment on the actual article, I personally believe the 10 commandments are still valid. One and one reason only.
Ill just post the piece of scripture why.
Matthew 19 v16 Then someone came to him and said, ‘Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?’ 17And he said to him, ‘Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.’ 18He said to him, ‘Which ones?’ And Jesus said, ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19Honour your father and mother; also, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ 20The young man said to him, ‘I have kept all these;* what do I still lack?’ 21Jesus said to him, ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell your possessions, and give the money* to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.’ 22When the young man heard this word, he went away grieving, for he had many possessions.
You shall have no other Gods, first and foremost and money was this young mans God.
Anger is disapproval of the Lords tests in our lives and many even myself have took the Lords name in vain. So I guess I know about this more than the next person.
Its difficult to not break any but God willing we all change from image to image into the glory of Christ.
God bless all, may his peace fill you. The truth is written, dont argue just consume the word!
Im pretty sure the question was for am123 not you rusty. Thanks for your utter lack of input. God bless buddy!
Hi danielreyes,
Biblically speaking, speaking in tongues is the tongue or language of angels (see 1 Corinthians 13:1). And it sounds like gibberish to Rusty and others because it is an unknown language to us. When someone speaks/prays in tongues, they are not speaking to other humans, they are speaking directly to God in a spiritual language (see verse 2 below). Speaking in tongues is praying in the Spirit. Speaking in tongues is edifying to the person themselves, but not to others (see verse 4 below). Here is chapter 14 of 1 Corinthians, which talks about speaking in tongues:
1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
—1 Corinthians 14:1-14
When you pray in tongues, you are bypassing your mind (non-believers can insert joke here
) and praying with your spirit. You are speaking of spiritual things from your spirit to God’s Spirit. You don’t know what you’re praying/saying in your mind, but as the Apostle Paul says, when you do so, it is self-edifying. When we pray normally in our own language, we know what we are saying, but many times we don’t know the right words to ask or say and some prayers may be awkward or incomplete. But you don’t have this problem when praying in tongues because you are putting your conscious mind aside and your spirit is praying/speaking. So in this direct communication between your spirit and the Spirit of God, you are praying about things your mind may not even know or would not know how to verbalize, for you are praying about the deep things of God:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
—1 Corinthians 2:9-11
My experience with speaking in tongues is this: I can speak in tongues any time I want. It is a language that is there always that I can tap into it whenever I want. I could be driving in my car and pray in tongues. I could be in the shower and pray in tongues. I can pray in tongues right now if I want.
But how does someone who has never spoken in tongues do so? I will try and explain how I speak in tongues as best I can. I believe a pre-requisite is being baptized by the Holy Spirit. As I said in an earlier post, I was baptized by the Holy Spirit early on in my Christian walk, but speaking in tongues didn’t come until years later. Another pre-requisite I believe is you need to believe and have the desire to speak in tongues. Given that, it probably helps if you heard someone speaking in tongues to get an idea of what it sounds like (sorry, I can’t help you with that by typing this message on my computer) and indeed, it may sound like gibberish, but I assure you, it is not. Like I said, it is a language I can tap into anytime and I can speak as long as I want. It is like a river you are tapping into, it is not something you are consciously uttering. If it was something your mind was attempting to do, you couldn’t speak it fluently, non-stop.
To start it, I guess it is like learning to swim by just jumping in the water and starting to paddle. You may be awkward at first, but the more you do it, the more fluent and smooth you become. I had heard others speaking in tongues and I found I could do it myself, so I didn’t actually have a tutor for speaking in tongues.
But anyway, here is something I found that may help you if you are interested. I have not listened yet to this particular teaching from Pastor Peter Tan (but I’m going to), but I have listened to other teachings from him and I believe Pastor Tan’s teachings are preparing and teaching believers like no other teachings on the web.
http://spiritword.net/audio/PS0003.3.mp3
The above link is but one in a series of teachings about praying in the Spirit. Here is a link to other teachings about praying in the Spirit (see the “Prayer in the Spirit” topics):
http://www.petertan.net/newsite/post-2009_PS.html
I hope this helps you danielreyes. And if you do wish to jump in the water and start speaking in tongues, Jesus said when two on earth agree about what they pray for, it will be done for them, so
I will agree with you on this:
May you be baptized with the Holy Spirit and start to learn and grow in speaking in tongues, in Jesus name, amen.
Grace and peace unto you. God bless.
For those who are interested, here are some other teachings from Pastor Tan:
http://www.petertan.net/newsite/pre-2009.html
am123 I fully agree with your explanation here. And like a river, that starts with a trickle, it eventually grows into big stream bubbling up from inside to carry you through every adversity. I like Peter and his party in Acts 10:45+46, believe it is the peace Yashua Annointed came to give us, His Seal of ownership.
Another good teaching on the Gifts of the Holy Spirit can be found here:
http://www.mikeboldea.blogspot.com/2011/08/holy-spirit-power-presence-and-purpose_02.html
I can turn your ideas upside down and give you a deep mystery of God if you have the ears to hear and eyes to see and just believe. Matthew 11v14, John is Elijah who was to come, for those with ears to hear let them hear.
Quite clear from Christs firm statement is the cycle of life. He even confirms when speaking to Nicodemas. John 3v8 The wind* blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”Nicodemus answered and said to him, “How can this happen?”10Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?
So if we take the story of the men and tongues of fire. It was a supernatural act that caused the holy spirit enter them. When it did they spoke in tongues that others around understood but they didnt know before. Their previous life they knew that language and were edified, both listener and speaker.
Just my thoughts and belief for Christ and the father has revealed them.
I do agree both the holy spirit and the individual soul of a man, when agreeing on anything the father will grant it to him.
I pray that your understanding will be fruitful, God bless am123.
@danielreyes,
I don’t understand fully how John is Elijah, but Jesus said it, so that is all I need in order to believe it. Thanks for the civil discourse.
@ desert owl,
I am glad we can compartmentalize different subjects and agree on some things. Like Truthseeker said, no two men are going to agree 100% on all things. It’s OK for believers to argue passionately about the 5% or whatever % they don’t agree on as long as the disagreements are not over the basics (repent and making Jesus/Yeshuah the Lord and Savior of your life) and as long as the correct fruit is displayed in the disagreements.
So as long as you and I can agree on the basics, the other stuff (in our case, the prophetic end time scenarios) will work itself out in the future. And then you will know I was right all along…..that was a joke
AM123…
I just tried hitting on a few of the Peter Tan MP3′s…
There’s no friggin’ way. The guy has a thick accent, and the recordings are the worst I’ve ever encountered. It sounds like he’s trying to talk to me through a soup can with a piece of string connected to it. And he forgot to empty the soup out of the can first.
I’ll look for other examples of work from him, but shoot me any links you might come up with in the meanwhile.
PS…
So far the POST 2009 recordings are just fine. Pre-2009… not so much.
Hi Beef,
Yes, the pre-2009 recordings are bad. For mp3’s, stick with the post-2009 messages. I believe the difference is he didn’t have a web site before 2009 and they just used old recordings which indeed are poor. So for pre-2009, stick with the PDFs, which are his teachings transcribed (some of the topics are mp3’s and some are PDFs).
The post 2009 mp3’s are much better quality:
http://www.petertan.net/newsite/post-2009.html
Although he does have an Asian accent, the teachings are dynamic.
Here for example is a great PDF which deals with the OT sacrifices and how they relate to the NT:
http://spiritword.net/Text/bc2spirit.pdf
am123 when we don’t limit ourselves to legalized thinking, box ourselves into traditions, we can wash each others feet as Yashua washed the disciples feet. Our differences should not become impenetrable walls standing between us, when the basis, the foundation, is the same.
Truthseeker, I have been asking myself a question for quite some time now. It has now come up again with this thread. Would you be so kind to answer it, if you can?
Why is it that a hot discussion like this one all of sudden stops dead in it’s tracks even though some questions weren’t answered?
desert owl
I will be happy to answer if I can, where did we stop, we have many threads running here,
which one is still hanging for you??
desert Owl
I may be writing this twice, I can’t find the first response, But anyway
I will be glad to attempt to answer any question you ask. If I do not know I will tell you.
I have told others, in my opinion it would take me 3 lifetimes to get only a basis understanding of the complete Bible. I do not know it all, but am doing my best to grow every day.
Truthseeker , I realize my question actually had two parts and your reply basically answered the first part : Why is it that a hot discussion like this one all of sudden stops dead in it’s tracks.
Answer: the comments section gets too long and eventually one can’t find the correct reply button, which happened to me twice, hence my re-posts.
Second part of my question: even though some questions weren’t answered – I somehow missed your answer to am123′s question re speaking in tongues. When re-reading everything this morning, I found your answer to that.
So thanks for your reply and God bless.
yes2truth
In a final attempt to bring light to this question of the LAW of GOD TO YOU
you quoted Romans 8: 1 that basically says if we are in Christ there is no condemnation –
I firmly and totally believe that statement.
In your quest to flush the Law away you are not applying logic and common sense nor correctly understand the words.
What is condemnation? that we no longer have it? this does not say we no longer have the law — what does logic say; if there is a law and you break it — the light flashes and the bell rings — THEN THE JUDGE PASSES SENTENCE ON YOU, THE LAW DOES NOT PASS THE JUDGMENT OR THE SENTENCE…. IT ONLY POINTS OUT WHAT YOU JUST DID.
The LAW codifies sin that is all it does –God is the one that judges you not the LAW and if you break God’s Law He will judge you guilty. Why do you think Christ said to repent???
I know the mind of man, what is written above is meaning less to most so — here is all you must do to convince me and everyone else that Christ came to remove the Law from off out backs. Enlist mike clinton’s help he hates God Law also, I read his mr. & mrs. law piece.
Jesus Christ came to bring a better covenant or contract, in the first there is no question at all that the 10 Commandments must be obeyed!
All you must do yes2truth is find the scripture that gives the terms of the new contract and clearly demonstrates the LAW was replaced with something else. What are the terms of the New Covenant???? Prove the Law was not a part.
YES2TRUTH you will fail in this attempt because it is still a part of the New Covenant.
When you are resurrected in the 2nd resurrection you will have an opportunity to explain to the King of kings that will be ruling all of the physical 12 Tribes of Israel by that LAW — why it is so harsh. I personally wish all my neighbors kept God’s Law – I would no longer need locks on my doors. Please accept my challenge after you read what is in the article above.
YES2 allow me one more comment.
going back to the beginning in the garden with Adam and Eve.
When they sinned they did not become aware they had no clothes, they understood their sin was now fully exposed, yes they were naked in front of God they had no way to hid their sin from God.
Christ then took a Lamb and bled it to death, this was the very first Passover: Christ took the Passover sacrifice, His death and blood and covered their sins. The lamb skin covered their sin.
So what just happened? man sinned, Christ died, His death covered the sins of man.
YES2 where in this event did Christ say the LAW was taken away? Christ Hid the Sins of man from the eyes of the Father by His sacrifice for man. God is the same today and all the way back to creation. He Changes not. YES2TRUTH you are fighting God not me.
This comment is just another of your blasphemies.
Animal sacrifices hid sins.
Yashua Anointed TOOK sins with Him to the cross – ALL SINS for ALL TIME completely. Sin is now dealt with forever – period.
Sin is a result of breaking The Law, and only the lost and unsaved break The Law.
Born Again sons of God cannot sin:
1 John 3:3 (KJV) And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.
I keep my hope in Yashua Anointed so I am as pure as He is. That means I am sinless and if sinless what hold does The Law have over me? Answer, NONE.
1 John 3:6 (KJV) Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him, neither known Him.
I abide in Yashua Anointed so I do not sin and I know Him.
Sinners attempt to keep The Law and struggle to rid themselves of sin, and The Law condemns them, so they must be sinning and sinners do not know Him.
1 John 3:9 (KJV) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Whoever is Born of God does not commit sin and he cannot sin because he has Yashua Anointed’s seed within him – he is a new creature, a new man born of God within whom resides the Holy Spirit. The Law is therefore an irrelevance to such a man – how can the Law condemn a sinless man? Answer me if you can.
1 Timothy 6:4-5 …doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, PERVERSE DISPUTINGS of men of CORRUPT MINDS, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
yes2 truth
Sorry, I was not aware you are now invisible and like the wind and already born as Spirit into the Family of God. If you can not sin you must already be a Son of God because only God is incapable of sin. Even the Angels can sin, but you have no need of repentance from sin because when you call others names it is not sin.
One question still nags at me, if Christ took the Law away what need is there for repentance and baptism? I guess one just says I believe and they are saved for ever? Once saved always saved, WOW does that mean chasing whores is not sin? I am confused, it use to be against the law but if the law went poof chasing whores is fine! Right??
yes2truth, I John 3 must be read in whole, but I will not spend any more time, I will let my Elder Brother explain it to you at a later time.
Please spare me your satanic Herbert W Armstrong; L Ray Smith, blasphemous BS, salvation by works garbage.
Your ‘rewards’ await you, so you have no excuses, for you have had your warnings.
yes2truth
I let this sit, I was not going to answer. I know it will not change your mind one degree,,, but,
I know who Armstrong is, I have no clue who Smith is and care less. I trust no man!
As to salvation by works — anyone with an honest mind knows one can not earn salvation, it is a free gift from God. I have lived a long time I do not every remember meeting anyone that did not justly deserve the sentence of death all of us are under. There is not one GOOD.
And the works of the law were nailed to the stake, it was not a cross.
Works of the law are what you DO like buying with money what ever it is you want to sacrifice, and going through the rituals, the washings ect, Works of the law are what pointed to the need for Jesus Christ, a payment for sin. The works of the Law only pointed to the need for Christ, they neither hid nor atoned for sin. You could burn up 1000 bulls and the adultery you committed is still hanging over your head. Works were added because of sin.
God did not want them to forget they were sinning.
The 10 Commandments were not added because of sin –THEY points out what sin is.
Without the list showing exactly what is considered sin — how could you possibly know what sin is?? The 10 Commandments simply says — this is what I do not want you to do.
Actually breaking the Law is work, Killing someone is work, adultery requires effort, lying is working your mind on and on. I spend no time or effort in not killing someone so how is that work?
Now to WORKS, yes2truth please explain to me this scripture;
rev. 22:12 “And behold I come quickly and my reward is with me to give every man according as his works shall be.
This is Jesus Christ bring a reward to the Saints and it is according to each mans works.
I will not bother bring up the hundreds of scriptures saying the same thing,
But Christ tells us what our rewards are for our work, it is hard work being a true Christian.
You should already know what the Apostles are getting for their preaching, writing and then dying for Christ — each will rule one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The reward is a position in the government of God as a king or a priest.
You have created your own religion, that is between you and Christ.
And please tell me how keeping the 10 Commandments is working, The Law itself says do not work, it says do not DO! Not doing something is not work!
Look at it this way, a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
Standing on what we believe is the right thing to do. But when we marry error & stand, we NEED a divorce. Without a divorce, the error we marry will become our doctrine, our believing, our life. Error is a creeper & it’s very good at it.
Name callin is extremely childish & imature. Straighten up & cut it out.
A heart seeking Father’s Will, will find it, He will provide it.
If one argues with others to recieve a high to feed to an addictive nature, woe to them & Stop it.
We reap what we sow. Sow to the wind ~ reap the whirlwind.
Y2Tr, You say you sin not. The obvious scripture is 1John 1:8. All humans are dichotomous, body & soul. Son’s & Daughters of the Most High God are trichotomous, body, soul & spirit. The only place they don’t sin is in their spirit. Holy spirit, the Comforter, our Mentor, the new man, Christ in us, the shepard of our souls makes us a new spiritual species. The soul is the operating system for the will, volition. The cursed, inherent sin nature is in the body. Passed down through the male sperm. Eve was decieved, Adam, the first, even though under tremendous pressure knew exactly what he was doing. In our walk we learn & grow as we intake Bible, increasing our capacity, establishing momentum where we win more than we loose. Christ is the only human who never sinned, the only one that can throw the first rock.
Loving, worshipping & adoring our Heavenly Father living life we can have extraordinary periods of time in fellowship with Him but not every second continuously. We all carry a cursed nature around with trends to sin that likes to creep up the back of the neck & inhale our head. Salvation is not complete wholeness, it’s salvation. Salvation is salvation, wholeness is whloeness. At salvation we’re babes, the objective is to grow into spiritual maturity, our will our volition determines the speed of growth. Humbleness meekness (surrendering your will to God’s will) will accelerate the process – the pedal to the metal. Quenching the spirit, refusing to repent teshuva, leads to blackout of the soul. Complete wholeness comes with & when our Lord arrives. David & Paul had a number of things in common; one was even in spiritual maturity they screwed up walking in the flesh and others lifes were affected.
Don’t eat from the tree, its arrogant. Arrogance decieves itself. Arrogance hardens the mind.
Self-righteous arrogance establishes standards and then seeks to impose those standards on people, so it produces a domineering personality. Personality arrogance is found in a bully. Also in a person that assumes that he is never wrong and yet we have seen in 1JO 1:8 that anyone who assumes that he never sins is a liar. Personality arrogance rejects human privacy, human will, and forces erroneous standards on others.
Heres a simple audio teaching explaing the connection of the Law & grace Love.
Prove the teaching, test everything before you consume it. It is right to stand boldly for what you believe. Stand!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkULziD9jg&list=PL138865CB45553315&index=8
Be like Job ~ make a covenant with your eyes & heart & keep it!
@ Lies Seeker
It would have been better for you if you had let it sit, because your waffling diatribe proves nothing other than you know nothing and that you are a Judaiser.
And yes our works receive rewards, but salvation is NOT a reward. Rewards for our works are over and above the free undeserved gift of salvation under His Grace.
Yes, of course, you know who Armstrong is, because you teach the exact same blasphemies as he taught i.e. that we’re not saved until the resurrection. So in order to be good enough to be resurrected and saved we must be earning our salvation by works in the meantime by pathetically attempting to obey the Law.
L Ray Smith was a disciple of Armstrong and taught the same salvation by works garbage as you.
@ Natsal
You quote 1 John 1:8 without even a clue of what John was teaching in 1 John 1, so go here and learn something for the first time in your wretched sin filled self-righteous life:
/religion/2012/12/1-john-1-chapter-1-of-johns-letter-explained-2446480.html
Crosby,
Since you are already so deep behind the enemy lines of willful ignorance, here are two more verses for you to consider…
Luke 9:23
Thus sayeth Messiah:
If any will come after Me, LET HIM DENY HIMSELF, and take up the (stauros) daily, and follow Me.”
Is this not an injunction to POSITIVE ACTION?
And again, from the Apostle Paul:
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, THAT YE PRESENT YOUR BODIES A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto God… which is YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE. (KJV)
This too is an adjurement to POSITIVE ACTION!!!
We are told repeatedly that there are THINGS WHICH WE MUST DO in order to meet with the basic criterion of the INSTRUCTIONS of the Most High.
Ok Y2Tr, I identify that accuser voice. How many other voices are with you in their?
Legion. For he is many.
Truthseeker,You see the Angelic Conflict that is raging now, how & when do you see it intensifying in your timeline? Specifically, regarding the groups of fallen angles (devil spirits) under the command of satan, who are now in prison but will be released in the future. The badest of the bad, the convicts of warfare, the meanest of the mean. All the ones who transgressed the boundaries and BROKE the rules of engagement in warfare. The first, the angels of Gen 6 who attacked infiltrated the human race to get to the blood lin of our Messiah & who are now incarcerated living underneath the ground in Tartarus, a compartment of Hades. The second group, the demons in the abyss. The location of satan’s second-in-command, Abaddon. Do you see him playing a major role? In REV 9:1-3, satan is allowed to open the abyss and release these fallen angels. Is the magnitude of torture and pain of REV 9:4-5 the time like no other? Pain, suffering, and adversity either make a person stronger or weaker, but never leaves them the same. Could Father in eternity past, provide the solutions before the problems occur? Today, warning before disaster, grace preceding judgment. The noise of the battle in REV 9 is piercing, “like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle.” Even before they strike, they have already paralyzed their victims with fear. One of the great powers of the cosmic system is is vulnerability to fear. When a person becomes frightened, he stops thinking and starts emoting, and emotions cannot think. Great sound hurts & frightens. Another demon assault army stationed underneath the Euphrates river. Four demon princes (or generals) who have been restrained. They are under the earth, and they cannot operate in human history at this time; we do not know when and why they were imprisoned, All of these combined is an enormous army, very hard-core “search and destroy” military. Sounds like this merciless demonic army don’t debate, don’t argue, they just get after it like there’s no tomorrow, they only take prisoners to torture. The sickest of sick.
I would enjoy hearing all your thoughts & seeing your view on these
Natsal
I will most likely submit the rapture piece later today, cut it down to 29 pages.
One helpful hint, when you write, break it up into small paragraphs, it is easier to read that way.
I have not spent much time on demons, I am well aware of them. Christ gave His Saints power over them, using Christ name which is His authority they must do as commanded.
I have had demons bother my family in the past and they leave when commanded.
The book of Job shows they can only go so far, they must obey God, but just like humans they push the envelope at every chance. Everything that is starting to happen in the US and world as well mostly is caused by human lawlessness, not God or Satan. Although God has taken away His protection, America is now on its own.
The 5th Seal which is the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of Satan on the whole House of Israel. Satan gives the Beast power and the false prophet great power, they will destroy America. The 4th Seal is the 3rd World war and we lose.
God created angels each individual just as each humans is individual from the next, none like the other, all different.
Some I believe to be insane, my understanding at this point; once the 6th Seal takes place and the Wrath of God begins, knowing their time is then very short, they will become like mindless crazies.
I know some today are saying that the demons had sex with human women. This is not possible they were not created with seed. they can not reproduce even among themselves much less with a human. I can not find where they have the power to create life, that only God has.
thanks,
There is no truth….merely observation.
God/Satan….Winners/Losers……mind manipulation is all…..separate and conquer… divide and rule……..just a thought having an experience
wizard
that is so sad, there is truth and the truth is you do not want the Law of God to rule over you.
And the Truth is —- it will very soon. And this time Christ will have a rod of iron, the truth is –you will obey!