The Kingdom of God
THE KINGDOM OF GOD
Many professing Christians, preachers, pastors, and evangelical types consider the gospel good news to be salvation through belief that Jesus Christ is Lord along with the repentance of sinful deeds and thoughts. That is good news and not to be diminished at all, but the message proclaimed by John the Baptist, then Jesus Christ, followed by Paul and the apostles was the gospel of the Kingdom of God.
On the day of the Ascension of Jesus, the disciples asked Jesus, “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” Jesus answered them, “…and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” This answer is taken by preachers and evangelists to mean: go out and preach the salvation of Jesus Christ by believing in Him and confessing one’s sins.” Is that what Jesus meant? Well, it’s a good thing to do and some churches spend a ton of money supporting missionaries, but it is basically secondary to the Kingdom of God. It one believes that Jesus is presently King and Lord over everything (which is true): if one lives their life as Jesus preached with the Sermon on the Mount: if one emulates the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus as much as possible, the gospel of salvation will be already achieved.
One commentator’s definition of the Kingdom of God is: the new world-order, in heaven and on earth, produced by the revolutionary changes brought about in Jesus’ fulfillment of the Old Covenant in His life, death, resurrection, and ascension. The Kingdom is the present Lordship and the Kingship of Jesus Christ. He (Jesus) is the example that a living person’s life should be (must be) fashioned and shaped from.
Old Testament scriptures contained prophecies of the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 9:6 proclaims the “government shall be upon his shoulder.” There will be no end to His government of peace.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:6-7 KJV)
Jeremiah 23:5 proclaims the King will reign and prosper executing judgment and justice.
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (Jeremiah 23:5 KJV)
The Kingdom was neither a new concept nor a new term to the Judeans during the life of Jesus. This Kingdom was seen as a coming with the Messiah of an age of true religion and universal peace and prosperity as the blessing of God spread with His dominion. Joseph looked forward to the kingdom of God.
Joseph of Arimathea, a highly regarded member of the council, who was himself looking forward to the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. (Mark 15:43 NET)
The political structure of Judea rejected Jesus and His message and had Him crucified. They envisioned a political, Israelite kingdom as the context for all the blessings prophesied. The Messiah would be the literal king of a Judean state as the kingdom of David, institute religious reforms, usher in blessing and restoration, stand as a defender of Israel from foreign domination, and then eventually extend His dominion over the whole earth. The Judeans were looking for a kingdom as one they were aware of in the past and they continue doing so today.
Attempts to see the Kingdom of God as a future event are mostly the product of the late nineteenth century’s rise of dispensationalism. The Gospels tell us the Kingdom is to be sought in our lives.
But above all pursue his kingdom and righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:33 NET)
It is to be received now.
I tell you the truth, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will never enter it.” (Mark 10:15 NET)
A person in Christ’s day could see it and enter into it..
Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. (John 3:5 NET)
It can be found among us (in your midst).
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:21 KJV)
Present day church people have imposed a parenthetical church age into the passage of history rather than acknowledge a present on-going kingdom of God with an eschatological millennium as the only fulfillment. The kingdom is now, as expressed by Paul and other writers.
For the kingdom of God does not consist of food and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. (Romans 14:17 NET)
Wherefore we receiving a kingdom (of God) which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: (Hebrews 12:28 KJV)
Attempts to see the Kingdom of God as only a future event are mostly the product of the late nineteenth century’s rise of dispensationalism.
The Lord’s Supper is an emphasized part of worship that emphasizes the kingdom of God with its associated royal feast.
And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. (Luke 14:15 KJV)
A statement of Jesus concerning this banquet may have been derived from a prophecy in Isaiah.
And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. (Luke 13:29 KJV)
And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3 KJV)
The supernatural feeding of the multitudes was an act of kindness but it was also proof that He is the promised messianic King of prophecy.
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. (Psalms 23:5 KJV)
The kingdom feast that Jesus taught about and enacted throughout His earthly ministry was “institutionalized” in the Lord’s Supper (Mat 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:17-20; 1 Cor 11:23-25). During the Last Supper, Jesus pointed to the connection between the Supper and the feast of the kingdom. The Lord’s Supper is a forerunner of the wedding feast that saints will enjoy when Jesus, the Bridegroom returns.
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it, gave it to his disciples, and said, “Take, eat, this is my body.” And after taking the cup and giving thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, from now on I will not drink of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” (Matthew 26:26-29 NET)
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
You said:
“It one believes that Jesus is presently King and Lord over everything (which is true): if one lives their life as Jesus preached with the Sermon on the Mount: if one emulates the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus as much as possible, the gospel of salvation will be already achieved.”
No it’s NOT TRUE: Yashua Messiah is NOT KING and Lord over anything YET!! Satan is the god of this world not Yashua Messiah.
He is coming to take King David’s Throne which His Father will give Him:
Luk_1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of The Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him The Throne of His father David:
Furthermore, if we emulate Yashua Messiah’s lifestyle then we will be keeping The Law of Moses as He did, including, annual visits to Jerusalem, animal sacrifices, dietary laws, circumcision, the Holy Day Feast Days, no wearing of mixed cloths and sunset Friday to sunset Saturday Sabbaths – The Whole Law as spoken of by James.
James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep The Whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
“Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” Jesus said to him, ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
(Matthew 22:36-40 NET)
Emulating Him and/or copying Him would mean making animal sacrifices at Passover and keeping The Whole Law.
Following His Commands (The New Covenant) is a very different thing.
The Two Commandments – The New Covenant encapsulates The Whole Law and the Prophets. Yashua Messiah was the father of all the Prophets and the final Prophet.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
yes2truth
then how are we to understand Jeremiah?
22 “For I spake NOT unto your fathers, NOR commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt concerning the matter of burnt offerings or sacrifices.”
23 “But this thing commanded I them saying “Obey My voice, and I will be your God and ye shall be My people and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you that it may be well unto you.”
Jeremiah is saying the sacrificial law WAS NEVER part of the Law of Moses.
And I agree on the two great commandments BUT please define them WITHOUT using the 10 Commandments. The first 4 define how to love God and the last 6 define how we are to love our neighbors.
@ LiesSeeker
Never mind Jeremiah:
Abel slew a lamb and made a sacrificial offering and blood seeped into the ground making it pleasing to Yashua Messiah. Cain’s was a bloodless offering and despised by Yashua Messiah.
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Sacrifices and burnt offernings were always an obligation to Old Testament people well before Moses. All Moses did was write The Law down.
Exodus 29 completely counters what you are saying about Jeremiah. So you must be misinterpreting Jeremiah. A quick read of Jeremiah 22 shows how the Israelites were making offerings to Baal and then making offerings to God – offerings God did not want, so He told then to go and just eat them for food.
The first Passover sacrificial lamb and all subsequent Passovers were COMMANDED.
Many offerings were so called ‘free will’ offerings and not commanded, but ALL the Feast Day offerings were COMMANDED and were a part of The Law – The Whole Law as mentioned much later by James:
James 2:10 (KJV) For whosoever shall keep The Whole Law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Which part of The Law do YOU offend in Lies-Seeker making YOU guilty of all?
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
yes2truth
“Never mind Jeremiah”? — Every word of God is to be obeyed. and THIS is GOD speaking saying I NEVER COMMANDED MOSES TO SACRIFICE. But YOU in your intellectual arrogance call GOD a liar?
All sacrifices pointed to the need for the Sacrifice of Christ for our SINS, once He was offered no more sacrifice is required UNLESS YOU “YES2truth” think the sacrifice of Christ was not enough?
What Christ did for me I did not deserve, but while I was a sinner God the Father showed me kindness (grace) by sacrificing His only begotten Son for me. That Sacrifice is all I need.
James is correct, you can not be justified by keeping the Law as all of us have sinned and been condemned to death for those sins. Once a person has sinned they are under the condemnation of the Law, once condemned you can keep the Law until the cows come home – you must still be put to death.
I am guilty of breaking the whole Law But Jesus Christ came and paid the penalty of death I had earned for my sins — now I am no longer UNDER the penalty of the LAW.
The Law IS righteousness — the LAW DEFINES what righteousness IS. And to you the Law is evil.
When I asked the question I knew how you would respond. You are blinded until Christ opens your eyes.
….Yes2truth…..Seeker can not understand, how, his life of strident devotion, (that apparently was not a pleasant endeavor), could possibly not be any more valuable to the Lord, than yours or mine, based on the Grace of God, not defined by the traditions of man. To me, he has yet to understand, just what Jesus Christ actually saved us from. He’s a pretty old fellow, and has been trying to ‘earn’ his salvation, for a very long time. He no longer responds to me.
max jones
….….”.Seeker can not understand, how, his life of strident devotion, (that apparently was not a pleasant endeavor),”
max I find it very difficult to communicate with you as your knowledge of scripture is very very limited. and much of what you think you know has been twisted into knots.
As to a “pleasant endeavor” Have you ever stumbled across this statement of Christ?
John 16: 33 ” These thing I have spoken unto you that in ME ye might have peace. IN the world ye shall have TRIBULATION but be of good cheer I have over come the world.”
Yes I have had my share of tribulation.
How about this one:
Hebrews 12: 6 “For whom the LORD loveth He chastenedth and scourgeth EVERY SON whom He receiveth”
8 ” But if ye be without chastisement where of ALL are partakers then are ye BASTARDS and not sons.”
Yes God the Father loves me and has Chastened me
—-”"could possibly not be any more valuable to the Lord, than yours or mine, based on the Grace of God, not defined by the traditions of man.”"
Max the Sabbath is not a tradition of men, it is the 7th act of creation. It is HOLY time to GOD.
Max the 7 Holy Feasts of the LORD are not traditions of men they are commanded assemblies, Commanded by God forever.
Please inform me of what traditions I keep that are of men I know of not one?
—”To me, he has yet to understand, just what Jesus Christ actually saved us from. He’s a pretty old fellow, and has been trying to ‘earn’ his salvation, for a very long time. He no longer responds to me.
First, I am 74 but if pushed I can take a 50 year old punk and kick his butt.
Second I know exactly what Christ saved me from, HE saved me from the penalty of death for my sins. HE DID NOT SAVE ME FROM HAVING TO KEEP HIS FATHERS LAW– they are Christ’s LAWS — Christ wrote them with HIS finger in the tablets of stone.
When Christ paid the penalty for my sins He became my Master, I am a servant of the LORD. He bought and paid for me. I was a servant to sin and was purchased from that evil master. I have not always been this nice!!!!!!!
Here is yet another scripture you have over looked.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are COMMANDED YOU, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our DUTY to do.
Read verse 10 once more max, I am under a DUTY to obey my Master, there is no reward for a slave doing what he is commanded to do – it is his Duty.
My LORD and Master has commanded me to keep HIS commandments, His Laws and His Statutes, HIS Sabbath and Holy Feasts. There is no reward for doing what I have been COMMANDED to do.
The Salvation I am waiting for is a free gift, there is not one thing I can do to earn salvation but I hear my Master and He has said ” Why call Me LORD LORD and do not the things that I say?”
Max your time to understand will come but it is yet in the future.
…All I can say…. Seeker, is I love you and believe you are sincere. Just don’t ever get behind..in your present state of mind, you will never catch up. The grace of God is upon you, acknowledge it. You won’t be able to finish what you started, without it…..I hope you find what you are seeking.
@ Max
He’s a blind guide of blind guides – he cannot see – period.
He’s also deaf to the hearing of faith which would save him.
If you pin him down and ask him when he’s going to be good enough with all his obedience to The Law to enter The Kingdom of God which he fails to keep every day of his miserable life, he cannot answer the question.
There are questions below on this thread that I have asked him which he hasn’t answered because he cannot answer them.
It’s an incredible state of affairs.
Fascinating to witness.
@ Lies-Seeker
You said:
“I am guilty of breaking the whole Law But Jesus Christ came and paid the penalty of death I had earned for my sins — now I am no longer UNDER the penalty of the LAW.”
You are no longer under THE LAW – Period, not just under the penalty, for without The Law there is no penalty. If there is a penalty then YOU MUST STILL be under The Law for The Law creates the penalty.
Gal 3:13 (KJV) Christ hath redeemed us from THE CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The Law is a curse because it automatically brings with it a penalty.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
Further to and in answer to this:
“the gospel of salvation will be already achieved”
No it won’t, the only way salvation can occur is to be called by The Father to His Son Yashua Messiah:
John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 (KJV) And He said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Then you must repent, confess your sins and be Baptised into Yashua Messiah’s (Jesus Christ’s) name alone (not the trinity) and receive The Gift of The Holy Spirit.
That is the only way a man or woman can be saved and enter The Kingdom of God – there is no other.
Acts 2:38 (KJV) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
You have quoted the statement below already:
It one believes that Jesus is presently King and Lord over everything (which is true): if one lives their life as Jesus preached with the Sermon on the Mount: if one emulates the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus as much as possible,
A person who does the above has been called by the Father. Making Jesus your Lord and Savior through belief in Him is also in that comment. Living the sermon on the Mount of Jesus will propel a person to repent of sins. I am not sure what part of “Jesus is Lord and Savior” of ones life does not qualify for salvation.
Many claim to be called, repent of sin, consider themselves saved, and then in a few weeks or months act like hell and do not even pretend to follow the words that Jesus spoke in the Sermon on the Mount, which of course was His total, sinless lifestyle. They may even say, “Jesus is Lord” but don’t act like it.
If Jesus is one’s King and Lord then one should not deny His commands and instructions. The first answer I gave says it all, “Love the Lord and Love your neighbor.”
You said:
“if one emulates the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus as much as possible.”
Not good enough, we have to be made perfect and sinless to be able to enter The Kingdom of God – unspotted pristine bridal gowns, not bridal gowns tarnished, stained and spotted with OUR good enoughness or OUR attempts at copying Jesus’ lifestyle which as I stated earlier included animal sacrifices at Passover every year.
You’re also parrotting the usual fundie Bible bashing Judaising BS!!
You said:
“Many claim to be called, repent of sin, consider themselves saved, and then in a few weeks or months act like hell.”
Holy Spirit led sons and daughters of God would not, could not and do not “act like hell” (your words, not mine) so whatever and whoever you’re witnessing as ‘acting like hell’, you’re not witnessing Christians, but then they have probably never heard The True Gospel Message anyway so that means you’re judging them.
However, if you’re not Baptised as I descriibed above and gifted with The Holy Spirit then you’re not a Christian either.
You said:
“Living the sermon on the Mount of Jesus will propel a person to repent of sins.”
No one can live the sermon on the mount unless they are gifted with The Holy Spirit. Without The Holy Spirit no one has The Power to live that way – period.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
Surely the author is mixing the instructions among the prophecies? Many of the verses, offered, aren’t tense specific and could be used to support either side of the debate.
I’m all for examining my bias, which is, that we are to live and govern ourselves like Yeshua was, literally, King all the while awaiting His return. I see little here to challenge that conception.
Where is the evidence of the reign of Messiah? I see heaps and heaps of what we sowed, from the seed of Satan.
…Mayhem…The reign of Christ is still a very intimate and private affair. He reigns in the ‘hearts’ of Christian people…but in the world at large, that is not the way it is..Satan’s spirit is truly the prince of this world. The “BIG DOG on PLANET”, so to speak. This actually is a set up, we are setting Satan up…..Very soon he’ll think the world is ready for HIS reign…and he will expose himself, arrogantly. Satan represents ‘death’, and Jesus has already given us the key…to defeat death. Satan will rely on fear to achieve his evil goal: To destroy all that has anything to do with the life, the crucifixion and the RESURRECTION Of our Savior. He will introduce himself at the time when the population of the world, has reached it’s absolute “breaking point”. When fear is the ONLY thing. Until then, his minions will keep working to foment that fear. We have information, that IS our weapon against Satan.
I beg your pardon, max jones? Both of my questions were rhetorical, find your own soapbox. You made that sound a lot like you were telling me something whereas all i see is you agreeing with me using different words and structure.
…that is exactly what I thought too……its good to find a post I can agree with around here. I meant no offense. You are a very reliably honest guy…..If that looked like a soap box….I’ll just slink away and pout.
Obviously i’ve read you incorrectly but i did get the wrong impression from your writing. No harm no foul. Yet clarity is vital when communicating without the emphasis and inflection of body language and tone.
I’m just waiting to see if yes2truth wants to take a shot at answering Truthseeker. I’ll submit my take on the question tomorrow. You and i agree on many things, Max.
….Mayhem….I looked over what I’d written there, and that was sort of a ‘soapbox’…I talk too much.
yes2truth, ephraim, mayhem and any one else
May I offer a question that has perplexed me from the very first time I stumbled upon BIN.
Why do the majority of folks on BIN believe that the Holy Eternal Law of God is done away?
I have offered comments quoting scriptures that say that is not so and they are ignored or countered with scripture that in no way prove the Law is no longer in effect.
So let me offer this question based only upon the Sabbath.
The Sabbath was the last of the 7 acts of creation of Creation Week, the 6th was man and the 7th was the Sabbath. The Sabbath is as special as man and the earth.
When God gave Moses the Law the Sabbath was part of the Covenant it is the 4th Commandment and says “Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy”.
God commanded Moses to put to death any Israelite that would not keep the 7th Day Sabbath.
I will not bother to quote word for word scriptures as you all are familiar with them.
In many places God states HE does NOT change.
If God does not change and He commanded those that would not keep the Sabbath to be put to death, Why, if God does not change, is the Sabbath no longer to be observed? A day He made HOLY as the 7th act of Creation?
And now no one will be put to death for not keeping it Holy, Christ say it does not matter any longer??
Did God change??
Putting folks to death is a very serious thing and now –who cares if you do or don’t keep it?
From the time of creation week until the time of Christ the Sabbath was to be kept Holy and Christ kept it Holy as did the apostles; and from Christ on the Day GOD MADE HOLY is now no longer HOLY? Do not even bring up Sunday, that day was never Holy.
Christ kept the Sabbath Holy and then changed His mind and said don’t bother?
What will God do now for those that were put to death, say I’m sorry but I changed my mind? It’s fine now to desecrate the Sabbath?
God says He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, but what He put folks to death for yesterday He says is now fine today??
God puts you to death one day and the next He does not??????
One of the major problems I find on BIN is most of the doctrine can only be true IF GOD does change. If HE does change how can I know He will not changes the terms for my salvation? According to most God changes and changes drastically.
Where are the scriptures saying God and Christ can enforce a law today and then void it tomorrow?
How is it just to kill a person for something today and tomorrow turn your head? That sounds like the law of man.
…seeker…We are not in the age of the law….we are in the grace of Jesus Christ….Repentance for sin is ours for the asking. Christ said he came to fulfill the law. He said ” It is done.” If I am in the grace of God for saying I love and believe in the life, death and resurrection, of Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior…SON of GOD…
Then all the “churchy” feast days and oblations mean nothing….When the veil around the ‘Holy of Holies’, was rent..top to bottom, at the instant Christ drew his last human breath, we were favored of the Lord Almighty, to approach Him in person…IN PRAYER….All the rest is “showtime” for the congregation. Jesus put the Pharisees in their place for putting on a show for the congregation…..If you feel like you need to celebrate do it, but don’t for one instant think you are adding one mite to the weight of your salvation. Also, don’t think for one instant that any body sins by NOT doing so.
Truthseeker,
I did some research on your question and found some scripture that answered the question for me, however the youtube video below supplied much more information that I could produce within a few days. It is long but not boring. The speaker is quick and supplied scripture on screen. The first link is the youtube supplied link and the second is a copy of my internet address line.
http://youtu.be/8HpPEdNOyK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HpPEdNOyK0
max & Ephriam
In effect what both of you are telling me is that — GOD HAS CHANGED. What one day you are put to death for — the next you are not. That is a change, big time.
I can not accept that and If that be true then this statement from Isaiah is a lie.
Isaiah 8:20 To the LAW and to the Testimony: If they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them”
Look up what the testimony is in Exodus 31:18 the two tables of stone.
And as pertaining to the New Covenant I read ONLY the promises were changed nothing else was changed. Hebrews 8: 6
THEN in the last book in the last chapter in the last 3 verses we are told by God {if GOD wrote the Bible}
Malachi 4:
4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
If we are not to keep all the Law, the Statutes and Judgments including the Sabbath and the Feasts of God
then GOD has changed and my God does not change.
I know yes2truth keeps including the sacrificial law as part of the Law of Moses but IT IS NOT.
Jeremiah 7: 22
22 “For I spake NOT unto your fathers, NOR commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt concerning the matter of burnt offerings or sacrifices.”
23 “But this thing commanded I them saying “Obey My voice, and I will be your God and ye shall be My people and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you that it may be well unto you.”
IF verse 23 is not true to day has God not changed?
When Christ came to fulfill the LAW -He did — He “completed” it. it is now Spiritual as well as physical.
I John 3: 15 “Whosoever hateth his brother is A MURDERER and you know that no murderer hast eternal life abiding in him” .
If we are under the “doctrine” of grace then why is no murderer (which is the 6th Commandment) to have eternal life.
Guys, I must use logic to understand the Word of God and when logic is applied to the 4000 flavors of so called christianity they are found to be illogical and they force God to change.
We will continue to disagree as I completely agree with John that —- “sin is the transgression of the Law”
God has not changed….WE have changed, Old testament man was living without the grace of Jesus Christ…..Living without the Holy Spirit. Christ’s men (Christians) were left the “Spirit of the Lord”, the ‘Helper’. This is what has changed. Do you have the Spirit, of is that some thing your church tells you must die to partake of…You told me that you don’t even believe you have a ‘soul’ yet. That you don’t have a spiritual body yet, either, right? I look into my own soul, and I can tell you, “I” have an immortal soul, and a spiritual body. And very soon I will shed this flesh, and join the Lord. I know how. That’s what has CHANGED.
TO ALL posters including the Judaising mongrel dog of the concision Lies-Seeker – BIN’s inhouse son of the Devil.
Notice the satanic blasphemer’s diatribe doesn’t even mention the word GRACE once, just obedience to The Law like a Pharisee which he fails to keep totally everyday of his miserable evil life.
He then prattles on about Sabbath Day keeping when HE hasn’t entered into Yashua Messiah’s ETERNAL SABBATH REST – THROUGH UNBELIEF
Lies-Seeker is a 24crt loser.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
yes2truth
can you please just once not call me names? Is calling me names your only means of response?
I understand the word Grace or Kindness to simply mean that while I was still a sinner and still condemned to death for those sins, my Father gave me the life of my Savior Jesus Christ to pay for those sin — EVEN BEFORE I HAD REPENTED. When Christ died there was not one converted person on earth. Christ died while ALL were sinners.
Grace is not a freedom to sin. and you yes2truth do yet sin every day, until you are born again in to immortal spirit life you can and do sin. Until you can walk through a stone wall you are flesh and blood.
The names are an accurate description and is all about caps fitting which in your case they do.
You said and lied when you said:
“I understand the word Grace.”
You don’t understand a thing about Grace – you’re a Grace Killer. And to refer to it as just a mere word shows your Pharisees quasi-intellectual contempt for Grace.
Then another lie:
“EVEN BEFORE I HAD REPENTED.”
The Father did no such thing. The Father called you to His Son and gave you the freedom to choose – life or death, and you chose death – The Law or Grace and you chose The Law – Religion or The Way – Yashua Messiah and you chose Religion.
You’re as dead in your sins as you have always been only worse because you were given the chance of the free gift salvation under His Glorious Grace and you rejected it in favour of Pharisaism.
Furthermore, FYI, worldly secular and/or atheist politeness never saved anyone.
You in your perverted thinking said:
“Grace is not a freedom to sin.”
How do you make the evil satanic perverted connection that life under His Grace is freeedom to sin?
Tell me what you know about The Holy Spirit led life?
yes2truth
You shout names and rant and rave but you never seem to PROVE by scripture that the scriptures I quote are false or do not mean exactly what Christ or one of the apostles has spoken.
I will give you one more chance:
Isaiah 42: 21
21 “The Lord is well pleased for His righteousness sake: He will “magnify” the law and make it honourable.”
Christ expanded the law by making it broader, expanding it from only physical to both physical and Spiritual. Now not just murder is sin, now even hating in your mind brings the penalty of of death. YES2t this does not seem to say the Law is no longer to be lived by and actually it is even more impossible for men to live by.
Here is a very interesting one by Timothy;
II Timothy 3:15-17
15 “And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures (Old Testament) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
16 “All scripture (Old Testament) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, and for correction, for instruction in righteousness,”
The New Testament was in the process of being written and was not considered Holy Scripture until much later, possibly 150 AD or later. ALL the Saints had was the books of the LAW and the Prophets.
17 “That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
With only the Old Testament, one is thoroughly furnished with all the knowledge needed for salvation. One is thoroughly furnished. Remember these books are all that Jesus Christ had.
And did you notice one important thing? Not one mention of grace! ONLY following and living by the OLD Testament.
Here is a great one:
John 5: 14
14 “Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple and said unto him behold thou are made whole “sin no more” lest a worse thing come unto thee.”
Can you believe Christ is telling a man He had just healed to “SIN NO MORE”?
Sin is the transgression of the LAW, if the HOLY LAW of GOD is soon to be pitched in the trash bin of history why would Christ waste His time by telling this poor man not to sin any more? Does God change and change that quick? One day it is sin and the next not so much??
I love this one:
I Corinthians 6; 9 -10
9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived neither fornicators, nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor abusers of themselves with mankind,”
10 “Nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor extortionists shall inherit the Kingdom of God.
Oh my Paul does not know that all of these poor sinners are under GRACE? and not the Law?
Paul is pointing to the 10 Commandments: Adulterers #7; idolaters #2; Covetous # 10; Thieves # 8 and clearly states those that break the Commandments of God will NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
and yes2t please remember to actually transgress one of the Commandments above all one needs to do is preform it in ones mind. If you look at a women and lust you just broke the 10th and the 7th.
I will stop with this next one to insure the blood vessels in your brain do not explode.
Romans 3:13, 20, 31
13 “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified”
Most ‘believers’ to day will not even hear the LAW much less be doers of the HOLY LAW of righteousness.
20 “Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
This is a TRUE statement: keeping the Law will not save anyone – none! because the main purpose of the Law is to DEFINE what SIN IS. Without a definition of what constitutes a sin how would you ever know not to SIN?
If the Law was pitched out by Christ them repentance is no longer a valid term — repent of WHAT?
If there are no Commandments there is no need for Christ, with out the Law we are not sinners.
OK, rant and rave but could you at least try to explain how what the scriptures above say do not mean what they clearly say?
Take verse 13 “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified”
is it really saying “but these that “ignore” the law shall be justified because they are under grace?”
@ Lies-Seeker
Ha ha ha the idiot comes back with Old Covenant Scriptures from Isaiah. QED as those Papist dogs say.
John 1:14 (KJV) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His Glory, The Glory as of the only begotten of The Father,) FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH. (Emphasis mine)
John 1:17 (KJV) For The Law was given by Moses, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.
Lies-Seeker is ‘saved’ under The Law by Moses.
Yashua Messiah, who was FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH not full of The Law, expanded The Law did He? How did you work out that little philosophical gem?
Col 2:8 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men (Law keepers), after the rudiments of the world (Hellenisers), and not after Christ.
You quoted:
15 “And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures (Old Testament) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
Salvation which is through FAITH in Yashua Messiah, not by obedience to The Law.
Then he says:
“The New Testament was in the process of being written and was not considered Holy Scripture until much later, possibly 150 AD or later. ALL the Saints had was the books of the LAW and the Prophets.”
Are the quasi-intellectual and his WRITTEN word, never mind the HEARING OF FAITH or The Word of God being oral
Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by The Word of God.
Galatians 3:2 (KJV) This only would I learn of you, Received ye The (Holy) Spirit by the works of The Law, or by The Hearing of Faith? (Brackets mine)
SO LIES-SEEKER HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT?
IF SO, DID YOU RECEIVE IT BY OBEDIENCE TO (WORKS OF) THE LAW OR BY THE HEARING OF FAITH IN YASHUA MESSIAH!!!!!!!???????
Want to shoot yourself in the foot again???? Be my guest.
Here, too, are my questions, again, which you failed to answer:
You said:
“Grace is not a freedom to sin.”
How do you make the evil satanic perverted connection that life under His Grace is freeedom to sin?
Tell me what you know about The Holy Spirit led life?
Two simple questions to answer (well they would be for me or any son of God) but not for you, I’ll wager.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
yes2truth
I knew you had to believe that everything in the Old Testament, the books of the Law and the Prophets, were all lies —- and you just confirmed what I believed of you.
If you did not think the old testament was all lies you could never espouse what comes out of your mouth.
No man will ever change your mind — only God can do that SO I leave you in the hands of God.
yes2truth
Did not Jesus Christ say we MUST live by EVERY WORD of God, every word that proceeds forth from God??
Big Fellow, that WORD includes the Old Testament, the WORD you have spit upon and hold in disregard. You may want to reconsider as you may fall into the hands of God the Father. You that can not sin may become sin in God’s eyes.
Oh dear, then he resorts to twisting my words when nowhere have I said The OT Scriptures were lies.
What I am saying is that The Law is no longer binding on sons of God who have and KEEP their FAITH in Yashua Messiah for their salvation.
ALL YOUR OLD COVENANT LAW AND PROPHETS ENDED HERE:
Matthew 11:13 (KJV) For all The Prophets and The Law prophesied until John.
Luke 16:16 (KJV) The Law and The Prophets were until John: since that time The Kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Time for you to repent and make it snappy ‘cos time is running out for YOU
@Truthseeker who asked…
“Why do the majority of folks on BIN believe that the Holy Eternal Law of God is done away?”
… and i would guess it’s because they want to think they’re free from the consequences of their actions. Other than that i agree with you, on this subject, Truthseeker. Well done and thoroughly put.
We seem to be going in circles in this discussion. The Laws of God have not necessarily changed. It is the covenants that have changed. The Abrahamic covenant had a sign of understanding called circumcision and the Mosaic covenant had a sign of understanding called observing the Sabbath. The New Covenant implemented by the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ replaced the previous two covenants for all who believe in the Kingship and Lordship of Jesus Christ.
Circumcision was replaced by Baptism as a sign of dying to ones old life (repentance) with Christ to new life. A new life in Christ is known by the receiving of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is the new sign of the New Covenant.
The sabbath was replaced with the Lord’s Supper. “This is My blood of the covenant for the forgiveness of sins.”
for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
(Matthew 26:28 NET)
Ephraim
Christ competed the Law, it was only physical, Christ added the Spiritual to it, now it is Glorious.
Then – if you kill a man you transgressed the 6th Commandment, NOW – Christ came and added the Spiritual component to it; “IF you even HATE a man you have transgressed the 6th Commandment. Now you only have to “think it” and you have broken the Commandments. NOW just thinking SIN places you UNDER condemnation of the LAW. For thinking you are now condemned to death.
Circumcision is not replaced by Baptism, baptism is dying, being buried and being resurrected with Christ. We must symbolically follow Christ, then and only then by the laying on of hands can we receive the HOLY SPIRIT of the Father.
Once the above is fulfilled then Christ begins the Circumcision with out hands cutting away our carnal human nature and God can then creates in us HIS HOLY Righteous Divine Nature. And that Divine Nature of GOD can be understood by the 10 Commandments.
The covenant of circumcision with Abraham for the land was a separate contract and was not part of the Covenant Moses negotiated with God. Circumcision points to the circumcision with out hands which Christ performs on HIS Saints during our salvation process over our life time. To receive the Kingdom of God we must be circumcised Spiritually.
Ephraim, why would God that used the 7th act of creation to create a special day, the only day with a name, the Sabbath, then after HE had made it HOLY and had people put to death for not keeping it holy — then drop it and then bring it back during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ?? That is not the WAY of GOD HE changes not.
The Lord’s supper which is the Spiritual Passover in which we are to eat the Spiritual Body and drink the Spiritual blood of Christ replaces the Sabbath?? NO! — it replaced the Physical Passover, the People of God no longer eat the Passover Lamb — we eat the Bread.
And If you for one minute think we are in a period of “rest” I can only think you are delusional.
If this world of total iniquity we live in now is a REST why am I beset every day with sin so great it blows my mind? I am not at rest. When I am at rest there will be no Satan and no sin in the entire world.
One of the purposes of the Spiritual Passover is to reconfirm the Covenant, by drink the wine which symbolizes the blood of the covenant we are renewing our commitment to the Covenant.
Where does sin come from? From with in a person, thus we pour the wine into us to begin cleaning us from the inside out. we do not pour the wine on the out side.
I am not “mad” at you Ephraim but I am mad at Satan who is deceiving the entire world.
The Bible was not written to be simply read and then understood, it is written to confuse.
Why do you suppose I keep harping about the 4000 flavors of so called christianity. Because the 4000 diverse doctrines are total confusion, caused by Satan.
I think I know what you mean, Truthseeker. I’m sure you’re not saying that He is a God of confusion…
“The Bible was not written to be simply read and then understood, it is written to confuse.”
… and i thought the same thing the first few times i read it. I mean: i could read a text book or novel and summarize well enough, why was this collection of books so difficult. Penny drop “collection of books”. Now i take the time to read a short summary of each book before i dive into reading it. It helps remind me what’s going on, who’s speaking and to whom, what’s the overall message the book contains. You know, context.
mayhem
God absolute hates confusion but in Isaiah 28 He explains how the Bible was written and why.
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
i.e. Spiritually mature adults.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: ——— yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
God wrote the Bible is such a way unless He opens your mind you will fall backwards and be broken and be snared and taken.
The results of “yet they would not hear” is what I keep referring to as the 4000 flavors of so called Christianity – those 4000 flavors ARE confusion and they will be snared and taken.
Mayhem Satan is the one that has and is deceiving the entire world, but people are willing to follow Satan because they do not want God to RULE over them. Look at all the folks on BIN that refuse the Law and demand Grace. They are refusing the rule of GOD.
I know that now, Truthseeker, but that section got thrown into the “whatever” basket the first few reads. You know me; i love a challenge and Isaiah 28:9-13 threw down the gauntlet, nothing surer. I’ve been on a mission ever since to debunk the Bible but the harder i try the clearer it becomes that it can’t be done.
Why do we not offer animal sacrifices?
Because Jesus Christ offered the ultimate sacrifice for our sins
Why do we not have to observe the Sabbath?
Because Jesus Christ is our eternal rest. The blood sprinkled on the Israelites is now the blood of Christ which we observe as a sign by partaking of the Lord’s Supper
Why do we not have to be circumcised other than health reason?
Our righteousness is enacted by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which we observe as a sign by being Baptized only one time.
Galatians 3:1-29 NLT
(1) Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of His death on the cross.
(2) Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ.
(3) How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?
(4) Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?
(5) I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.
(6) In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”
(7) The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.
(8) What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when He said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”
(9) So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.
(10) But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under His curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”
(11) So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”
(12) This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”
(13) But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When He was hung on the cross, He took upon Himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
(14) Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing He promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith.
(15) Dear brothers and sisters, here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case.
(16) God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children, ” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to His child”–and that, of course, means Christ.
(17) This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking His promise.
(18) For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.
(19) Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave His law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.
(20) Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when He gave His promise to Abraham.
(21) Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises? Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it.
(22) But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.
(23) Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.
(24) Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith.
(25) And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.
(26) For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
(27) And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.
(28) There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(29) And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.
Ephraim what’s up? You may presume that we’ve read the Bible. No need to quote the whole book. Now then: you say…
“The Laws of God have not necessarily changed. It is the covenants that have changed”
… and this is, precisely, what i’m saying.
“…and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” This answer is taken by preachers and evangelists to mean: go out and preach the salvation of Jesus Christ by believing in Him and confessing one’s sins.” ”
What ever Jesus meant, it had nothing to do with what you actually did. Murdered all the native people from every land. Butchery, cruelty and genocide. Christians are mass murderers.
“You”
I have personally never murdered anyone. I cannot speak for other people. It would be nice if you did not speak for me as if I am guilty of the sins of others. The same type of people who murdered people in days past are still murdering people today. Their Christian faith (or lack of it) does not delineate my faith.
Ephraim
you do not actually have to murder some one to be guilty of murder under the Spiritual Law that Christ brought with the New covenant. All one must do is hate a person and they have transgressed the 6th Commandment. Every one that has hated another is UNDER the Law –UNDER the verdict of death.
…Seeke
r where is your soul, right now, this instant? Do you have a spiritual body, right now this instant……You’ve alreadytold me once, tell us all.
Truthseeker,
You are absolutely correct, however, I was answering Pix, who seemed to indicate, that I am personally responsible for murdering “native people from every land.”
max
I am a living breathing creature made from the dust of the earth and when I die I will return to dust.
The gift of God is eternal life which I do not have now as I can and will die and cease to exist. At the return of Christ I will be resurrected into an incorruptible spirit body. I will have cast off this corruptible temporary physical body that I am Tabernacling in now.
When I repented of transgressing the HOLY LAW of GOD and was baptized I had hands laid upon me and I received the Spirit of my Father.
that Spirit is the down payment on eternal life which can be taken back if I willfully return to sin.
I have in me the HOLY SEED of God the Father that has begotten me as a son. After I have endured until the end ( my death or the return of Christ) I will be born again as Immortal SPIRIT in the first resurrection.
I will then be a brother to Jesus Christ and will be in the same Spirit body as HE.
I do not have an immortal soul or a spiritual body I believe those are catholic doctrines and I despise all things catholic.
PS; I am not going to heaven I will rule on earth under Jesus Christ as a king or a priest.
Max I know you can not understand now but you will in the Kingdom of God.
Ephraim
Oh, pix?
I am sorry I try to stay a way from that person so I did not read the comment.
Ephraim. You and all Christians support and promote an organisation that is directly responsible for the extinction of just about every native population on the planet. An organisation full of damaged goods psychotic mass murderers, sex offenders, liars and thieves. If your ideas need forcing with a jack boot, they are worthless.
Truthseeker
Yes, I try to stay away from hypocrites like you. ” I despise all things catholic.”
You are a worthless hater. Role playing your ‘deity’ so you can do the judging instead, thus proving you do not believe your own BS. If you did believe, you would not dare to bare false witness against thy neighbor. One of your ‘deities’ main commandments.
The saddest thing of all is you can’t even be truthful with yourself.
pix
Just to keep you up to speed, by the time Christ sets foot on the mount of Olives 90% of all the “natives” will be dead.
Christ is going to start over with 10% of the population we now have and teach these pagans the correct way to live. They will live by the LAW the Statutes and Judgments of GOD or they will be put to death.
…..seeker….There will be zero human beings walking the earth….at the seventh trump, all souls gather together, the good the bad and the ugly are delivered to paradise. God’s ‘elect’ will have a thousand years to teach with Jesus. At the end of this period, Satan is turned loose to test the souls….Then comes the great White Throne judgement. This the TRUTH. Take it or leave it.
max
no thanks I will leave it,
there will be no humans alive after the 2nd death when all those that refuse to obey God are cast into the Lake of Fire and burnt to ashes. And that occurs at the end of the Great White Throne Judgement.
At the end of the 7th and last Trump Christ returns and the First resurrection takes place as does the 2nd exodus. The 2nd Exodus is from Assyria to Jerusalem, the Remanent of the 12 tribes that come out of the Great tribulation and remain alive until the end of the 3 1/2 year travel to Jerusalem to receive the promise to Abraham of the Promised Land. and they dwell and multiply in the Promised Land for 1000 years under the Rule of Jesus Christ.
The Good News is the Kingdom of God is coming very soon to this earth to bring justice and peace.
@ max + TS,
You are both wrong about humans. Planet earth will be populated by mortals during the Millennium and also in the new earth, for all time to come.
When the LORD creates the new heavens and new earth, mortals will indeed populate the earth at that time:
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
—Isaiah 65:17-20
3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.
4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.
5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.
—Zechariah 8:3-5
And so in the age to eternal age to come, which is a little over a thousand years after the Second Coming, the earth will be populated with mortals at that time and Israel and the nations of the earth will come to worship at Ezekiel’s temple from that time on and forever more.
am123
The 7th Holy Feast of the LORD is called The Last Great Day and it is a 100 year period of time. This is the time of the 2nd resurrection all those that never had an opportunity for salvation are brought back to physical life, this 100 years follows the 1000 year reign.
Revelation 20: 4,5,6 explain after the 1000 years the REST of the DEAD come up. Ezekiel 37 explains the 2nd Resurrection.
During this time no babies will be born just like verse 20 you quoted. Possibly 100 billion people will be resurrected back to human life and given their ONLY chance for salvation.
What happens to the pagans that have lived and died for the last 6000 years. To the millions of babies aborted in the womb or the kids killed by war etc.
They all get their chance for salvation.
At the end of the Last great day there is a third resurrection of those that refuse to obey are sentenced to death an cast into the Lake of Fire.
NOW there are no more humans on earth only Immortal SPIRIT SONS of GOD.
Read Genesis God Said let us make man in our image in our likeness and to be after their likeness we must be immortal spirit exactly like our elder Brother and our Father.
“During this time no babies will be born just like verse 20 you quoted.”
What???
The passage from Isaiah I quoted above speaks to the exact opposite of what you are claiming. It says there will be no infants or babies who die a premature death and men will reach 100, and anyone who dies before 100 will be considered accursed.
Is this not the time period God spoke of in GEN when He said the lifespan of man will be limited to 120? Indeed, it is.
“NOW there are no more humans on earth only Immortal SPIRIT SONS of GOD.”
How do you explain then when God creates the new heavens and new earth as per Isaiah 65:17 above, there are mortals there, as per Isaiah 65:20?
Do you not read the Book of Ezekiel TS? For the nations of mortal men will come and celebrate the Feast of Passover and Feast of Tabernacles throughout eternity.
Regarding the law of Moses, the sacrificial rules and regulations are part of it and cannot be separated from it. I don’t why TS separates the two when the Scriptures do not. But anyways, the law of Moses is still in effect and will remain so as long as this present earth and heaven remain. Then when the Most High creates a new heavens and new earth, the law of Moses will be done away with and the rules and regulations according to Ezekiel’s temple will be in effect from that point forward for all time to come.
am123
I have given you this before but I guess the Word of God in not enough if it does not match with what you want to believe.
am123 this is GOD speaking in the “first person” and He state clearly HE DID NOT SPEAK NOR COMMAND THOSE THAT HE BROUGHT OUT OF EGYPT CONCERNING BURNT OFFERINGS OR SACRIFICES”
Jeremiah 7: 22
22 For “” I “” spake NOT unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, OBEY MY VOICE, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
I find it extremely hard to understand what is so difficult about these words of God?
God’s voice said obey MY Commandments He said nothing at that time about burnt offerings or sacrifices.
Since Christ came there is no need of Sacrifices as the Sacrifice of Christ is ALL WE NEED to pay for our sins.
How difficult is that to understand?
Please understand when you say the Commandments of God are going away you are stating the Divine HOLY Righteous Nature of God is going away as the Commandments ARE the very Divine Nature of GOD.
They Show what is is like.
That is irrelevant to my point that the sacrificial rules and regulations are part of the law of Moses, which will be done away with. I use the “law of Moses” in the same way the Bible does, not in the way you do.
When the Bible speaks of “law of Moses”, it includes all the rules and regulations and commandments:
30 Then Joshua built an altar unto the Lord God of Israel in mount Ebal,
31 As Moses the servant of the Lord commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the Lord, and sacrificed peace offerings.
32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.
—Joshua 8:30-32
And the law of Moses will be done away with when this present earth and heavens are done away with.
john 8:55 though you do not know him, i know him. If I said i did not i would be a liar like you. but i do know him and keep his word. john 8:19 then they asked him where is your father? you do not know me or my father. if you knew me you would know my father also.
John 5:39 you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about me. luke 24:25 he said to them how foolish and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. rev 3:8 I know your deeds, i have placed before you an open door that no one can shut i know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and not denied my name. heb. 4:12 the word of god is alive and active. just some of the verses that stand out to me after reading the discusions
am123
the Law of Moses are the Commandments, the Statutes and the Judgements and they will never be done away — THEY ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS.
am123 you also are telling me the one you worship — changes.
Psalms 119: 142
“Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness and thy LAW IS TRUTH”
and 172 ” My Tongue shall speak of thy word for ALL thy Commandments are Righteousness
So God has or will change and pitch out TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS?? Really???
am123 the God I serve does not change, the TRUTH today is the same TRUTH tomorrow and for ever. And God’s Righteousness is everlasting, The definition of truth and righteousness never has nor will ever change and they are defined by HIS LAW.
am123
Explain to me what righteousness is with out using the Law.
“am123 you also are telling me the one you worship — changes.”
No. I am telling you the Most High changes not. But His covenants, yep, they change:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
—JER 31:31-34
The covenant in verse 32 above is the law of Moses, which, in spite of your linguistic gymnastics
, will be done away with.
“Explain to me what righteousness is with out using the Law.”
The law lets us know what sin is, but I don’t know why you want to know what righteousness is without the law. But anyways, would it not be a much more beneficial discussion to all if we delved into where does our righteousness come from in the New Covenant? How do we gain our righteousness by which we enter into the kingdom of God? I mean, who here, raise your hands
, doesn’t want to be able to enter freely through the gates of the New Jerusalem?
So, can you please answer that TS, how do we gain our righteousness in the New Covenant? Does our righteousness come from anything in the Old Covenant, the law of Moses?
am123
Once a person repents of transgressing the Holy Law of God, is baptized and by the laying on of hands is given God the Father’s Spirit that person is “righteous” in the eyes of GOD because their sins are forgiven by the sacrifice of Christ. They did nothing Christ did it ALL.
you stumbled in your attempt to define Righteousness,
Righteousness is defined by the LAW.
If there is no Law there is no Righteousness. Just as if there is no Law it is impossible for there to be transgressions.
I am righteous in the eyes of God because I am no longer UNDER the condemnation of the Law.
The Law has no hold on me as my debt to sin is paid has been paid in full.
“No. I am telling you the Most High changes not. But His covenants, yep, they change:”
Am123 can you not see if God changes HIS Contracts If God does not honor the agreements He made He is no better then a man that refuses to honor His agreements.
The old covenant was voided by the Children of Israel thus God gave us a contract with better promises. It is the same contract with better promises.
TS said:
“If there is no Law there is no Righteousness….I am righteous in the eyes of God because I am no longer UNDER the condemnation of the Law”
And I am righteous in the eyes of God because of my faith, which is credited to me as righteousness (a righteousness that has absolutely nothing to do with the law):
“For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
—Romans 1:17
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
—Romans 3:22
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
—Romans 4:5
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
—Romans 4:11
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
—Romans 4:13
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
—Romans 9:30
But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
—Romans 10:6
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
—Galatians 5:5
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
—Philippians 3:9
By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
—Hebrews 11:7
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
—2 Peter 1:1
Mostly i read this debate as two camps saying much the same thing. On the one hand we have: “All of the Law applies except for the punishments and rewards”. And on the other hand: “Except for the punishments and rewards all of the Law applies”.
If the Law is the measure of Sin, or it’s opposite Righteousness, how could it possibly be inapplicable?
Mayhem, I don’t fall into either of the 2 camps you mention. But to answer your question, the law is inapplicable because we are talking about two kinds of righteousness here: the righteousness that comes from obeying the law (see Deuteronomy 6:25) and the righteousness that comes through faith (see GEN 15:6 and the multitude of Scriptures I quoted above). It is the latter righteousness that is imputed unto us through the New Covenant.
All Scripture applies, am123. Therefore, righteousness that comes by Faith is measured by the Law.
“righteousness that comes by Faith is measured by the Law.”
How can that be if the righteousness that was imputed to Abraham through faith, as Paul told us, happened before there was the law?
am123
What is FAITH?
Faith is absolute trust in the character of God and the promises of God. Abraham knew through decades of contact with God that God was righteous and God lived by HIS LAW.
Abraham knew God’s character was understood by HIS LAW.
Abraham trusted God because he knew God can not lie or cheat or back out of a promise and that was accounted to him as righteousness as the sacrifice of Christ would not take place for 2000 years.
God is the LAW giver, God is defined by HIS LAW – GOD IS LAW.
Again define righteousness without using the LAW. It can not be done.
Mayhem is correct faith is measured by the LAW.
am123 what you have failed to grasp as yet is GOD is defined by HIS Perfect HOLY LAW.
Which is why it can never be done away.
Rubbish
Faith is a free gift with Grace so that we can believe in Yashua Messiah for our salvation.
Eph 2:5 (KJV) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:8 (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Mayhem/Beef Supreme is an idiot. Faith with Grace replaces The Law – The New Covenant.
http://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/
http://yes2faith.wordpress.com/
http://yes2truthblog.wordpress.com/
Mat. 3: 9 and think not to say with in yourselves. we have Abraham to our father: for I say to you, that god is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. and 2 Thes.1. 1:5-12 the judgment at Christ’s coming. AND REV 5: 2-10 the lion of the tribe of Judah . the lamb is worthy and John 16. 1-11 Jesus’ warning and the holy spirit promised. for some more verse that comes to my mind when reading the discussion. not directing this at anyone particular . “I desire mercy not sacrifice ” Mat. 12: 7