The Eschatology of Jesus - Matthew 24 Part 1
THE ESCHATOLOGY OF JESUS
MATTHEW 24
The three synoptic Gospel passages of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 constitute parallel descriptions of the Olivet Discourse.
This study will focus on the Matthew account but the other two will be referenced when additional information is supplied. As an outline of Matthew 24, I will borrow one from Alan Kurschner, that can be found in his book entitled, “Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord” (available on Kindle). The chart below illustrates the outline of the chapter. First Jesus comments on the destruction of the temple, then He summarizes, in chronological order, the events of the 70th week of Daniel, and afterwards, He gives parables illustrating watchfulness.
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24:1-3
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Prediction of the Temple |
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24:4-8 |
The Beginning of Birth Pangs |
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24:9-14 |
The Great Tribulation
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24:15-28 |
The Great Tribulation Developed |
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24:29-31 |
The Day of the Lord Begins |
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24:32 |
Similes and Parables for Watchfulness |
(Matthew 24:2 KJV)
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
The group had just left the temple area following a conflict between Jesus and the religious leaders (see Matthew 21-23). The disciples, perhaps in an attempt to lighten the mood and change the subject, tried to focus the attention of Jesus to the structures and magnificence of the temple. Jesus avoided the redirection and said, ‘See this temple? At some point, it will be destroyed without one stone being on top of another.’
When they came to a stop at the Mount of Olives, the puzzled disciples asked Jesus three questions, “Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? He actually answered the questions in reverse order and started with signs of the end of the age.
(Matthew 24:4-8 KJV)
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Before giving an answer to the sign of His coming and the end of the world, Jesus gives them a list of conditions that will occur before that outcome and prior to the end. The events listed in verses 4 through 8 are proclaimed by Jesus as “the beginning of sorrows” in verse 8. The word (odin) translated as “sorrows” in most versions is defined in Strong’s as “a pang or throe, especially of childbirth: – pain, sorrow, travail”. Many commentators apply employ the term “birth pangs” to illustrate this section of scripture. A birth pang is generally defined as the initial pains leading up to the actual birth process which is referred to as labor pains.
These pre-labor events or birth pangs consist of: deceiving false prophets; wars; rumors of wars; nations and kingdoms rising against each other; famines; pestilences or plagues; and various earthquakes. The warning to be alert for the appearances of many false prophets and false christs is presented in several instances. Luke 21:8 adds that believers should not be seduced by their almost believable lies and they should not heed or follow them.
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. (Luke 21:8 KJV)
In Matthew 24:8 Jesus says, “all these are the beginning of sorrows.” A parallel version in Luke 21:9 quotes Jesus as saying, “be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by”.
Even prior to the 70th week of Daniel, the world has had its history of huge wars, famines, plagues, genocides, and murders, although it will certainly become more severe as we approach the last days.
(Matthew 24:9-14 KJV)
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew verse 9 states that people of the Lord will be tormented, arrested, killed, and hated by all. They will face trials, temptations, martyrdom, apostasy, deception, and lawlessness. Some so-called Christians will become offended by the animosity of the world which could instigate the conviction to betray one another, and generally despise each other producing hatred of confessing believers.
The related passage, in Luke 21:12, contains the word “synagogues” which may have had more importance during the first two centuries, but doesn’t appear to be that relevant for today, although that concept could change. The word translated as ‘synagogues’ according to Strong’s Greek Dictionary is defined as: an assemblage of persons; specifically a Jewish synagogue (the meeting or the place); by analogy a Christian church: – assembly, congregation, synagogue. In the near future, it is possible that church buildings and/or synagogues may be employed as reporting and detention areas if true Christianity becomes a crime.
But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake. (Luke 21:12 KJV)
As of 2014, many Christians have been killed, violated, and persecuted in the east and the middle-eastern countries. Other areas, such as Russia and eastern Europe, during the past century may also qualify. The actions of Satanists, leftists, liberals, non-traditional gender associations, atheists, and non-traditional belief systems have begun to exert distress and affliction to those openly confess Christian values in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other traditionally populated Caucasian countries.
During the 70th week of Daniel, the anti-Christian sentiment will quickly become much fiercer than today. The strain and tension created by persecution will cause many pretenders to apostatize and rationalize defenses and allowances for their so-called faith. They will even betray others who preach, evangelize and refuse to disavow their Christian faith. During the last seven years, prior to the abomination of desolation, it may be illegal to be a Christian or own a Bible, with the punishment consisting of a concentration camp, confiscation of all property, or death.
The first four seals of Revelation 6 indicate wars, conquering armies, a lack of peace or the increase of killing and murder, famine or high inflation, and death of 1/4 of the world’s population. The scenarios of the first 4 seals will actually be a part of the 70th week of Daniel but the world has had its history of huge wars, famines, plagues, genocides, and murders, although it will certainly become more severe.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold
The word “iniquity” in Strong’s Greek Dictionary means: (violation of law or (generally) wickedness: – iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness) The definition generally used by many commentators is “lawlessness”. This mentioned iniquity will increase exponentially (abound). The beast (antichrist), also scripturally called “the man of sin” and “the man of lawlessness” will represent the extreme pinnacle of iniquity.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV)
Perdition: Strong’s: ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): – damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste
It was been written in some commentaries that the root and foundation of end-times apostasy is related to the fulfillment of lawlessness (anomia).
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. (Ephesians 5:6 KJV)
Believers Bible Commentary
Then a great world figure will arise. As to his character, he is the man of sin or lawlessness, that is, the very embodiment of sin and rebellion. As to his destiny, he is the son of perdition; he is doomed to eternal judgment.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved
They will be saved through the actual harpazo (rapture in the Latin Vulgate). For pre-wrath followers, this will occur just prior to the outpouring of the wrath of God at the 6th seal. For pretribulation rapture believers, they are still waiting to be disappointed.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations
The gospel of the kingdom of God is not the same as the gospel of the grace of God. Jesus, initially, preached the coming kingdom of God as did John the Baptist. It was not until just prior to the Passover/last supper that Jesus announced He would be crucified. The Kingdom of God occurs after Babylon the Great is destroyed, God’s wrath is poured out, and the battle at Har Meggido is finished. At that time, Jesus will set up His one thousand year earthly rule (the Kingdom of God) which is referred to as the Millennium.
The “Believers Bible Commentary states:
the gospel of the kingdom is the good news that Christ is coming to set up His kingdom on earth, and that those who receive Him by faith during the Tribulation will enjoy the blessings of His Millennial Reign………..And this refers to the gospel of the kingdom, not the gospel of the grace of God
It should be noted that Matthew 24 and its Gospel parallels are of little concern to pretribulational rapturists. They believe that Jesus will come unexpectedly (out of the blue / imminent) and whisk them away to heaven from where they will return with Jesus for the battle of Armegeddon, even though scripture says that angels will accompany Him: “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels”, (2 Thessalonians 1:7 KJV) However, Tim LaHaye has made so much mammon (I mean: money) with the “Left Behind’ series, that I’m sure he knows much more that pre-wrath people.
A NOTE OF POSSIBLE INTEREST
Pre-tribulation rapture people do write commentaries on Matthew 24, along with the books of Daniel and the Revelation, for the heathens and Jews, as if they will read it during the final period and be converted. A few years ago, there was presented a theory that a flotilla of alien craft would arrive and levitate people out of existence to simulate a false rapture. The new age authorities would claim that ascended masters were merely ridding the earth of undesirables so that the remainder could have a joyous, new world order.
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Whistler Blowers, Insiders
I’m reading some of your work, Ephraim, and liking what I see. Well done.
Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.
Jesus denied himself, his ego. He asks his followers do do the same. Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and pick up their crosses. It means Jesus flesh and bone is set aside(dead) and Gods holy spirit is talking thru Jesus. So the rapture is Gods holy spirit returning to earth in the hearts of mankind. A person connected to God thru spirit will never walk around claiming to be Christ or the only son of God. Instead that person will tell you how to connect with the spirit and how to be a son of God. Jesus allready told us how in Matt 16. Do you understand the paradox in Jesus vs Peter? That Peter will build his church and be the cause of his fall. Simon Peter, the rock and son of Jonah, the moon and lord of the dark night. Christ is revealed in spirit and not flesh, not only in Jesus but all people loving their neighbors and denying themselves. As Jesus says he will be killed(slain) in flesh ( not on the cross) Peter will not accept the fate and will of God and Jesus calls him Satan. Ressurection on the cross is not death of the flesh is the death of ego. Then you will have a rapture of the heart where God will reign. In this state you will find no fear of dying in flesh and Jesus proved it.
When you see the paradoxes and parables you have to stop and think and seek understanding. The Holy Spirit is knocking on doors ready to give you truth and understanding. But we have to sacrifice our egoes to a greater cause. We will remain the same but lifted in spirit, its like throwing the net on the other side of the boat.
“Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.”
He said this because the time for him to be revealed had not yet come. He gave the same order to the demons he drove out of people, for the same reason, and it had nothing to do with ego.
Of course Jesus taught people to be humble, but that is not what he was talking about when he ordered anyone to not reveal who he was.
“For pre-wrath followers, this will occur just prior to the outpouring of the wrath of God at the 6th seal. For pretribulation rapture believers, they are still waiting to be disappointed.”
Why, why, why does everyone mock pre-trib but none of the other Rapture theories? Can’t you just disagree?
I was about to invite you to my msg. board to debate on the topic of whether the Olivet Discours has anything to do with the church, but this attitude toward fellow believers would not be permitted.
And since I don’t believe the trib. starts with the Seals, your swipe at pre-trib is meaningless, ***since your view is actually also pre-trib.*** Every rapture view that precedes the trib is pre-trib.
There is no wrath in God.
Why wasnt noah raptured up instead of building a boat? Why wasnt Moses and Israelites raptured up instead of chased out of Egypt? Because they were given visions and knowledge thru the spirit. And thats how we will be raptured out of this new world order. And we know people have become more awake, there is an awakening going on and we start to see an end of this. Trust in Gods ways. You only see Jonah, but the light is spreading around the planet.
There will be no Satan ruling saying he is the Christ or the son of God. Christ is revelead in spirit not flesh. Anything else is BS and indoctrinated by the false prophets wicked church of Satan. There will be no wrath of God or rapture in clouds or UFOs only knowledge and truth. And no one should be scared or sink into fear porn. If God wanted to finnish me off, why am I kept alive? I am planning on staying on the ground, i dont fear anything so how can I be threatened to lose my faith?
We’re talking about the Bible from the perspective of those who believe it is the Word of God. And that Word states repeatedly that God has wrath. To not have wrath against evil would mean God is not concerned with love or justice for the victims. Anyone who feels no anger at injustice cannot claim to feel love for the victims of injustice.
The Rapture is the name given to an event described in the New Testament, nothing else. It is not just a feeling, or a spiritual transformation, or a vision. The Greek word inaccurately rendered “falling away” means “departure”, and it is given in the context of the Day of the Lord or time of the end. It is preceded by the defininte article, thus The Departure. In a similar passage, Paul describes this event as when Christians are “snatched away” to meet Jesus in the air, after which He takes us all to “the place prepared” for us in his Father’s house.
This has nothing to do with “awakening” or awareness, but only with the promise of Jesus to come for us and take us to be with him.
There will indeed be a “prince that shall come” who will “confirm a covenant with many” for seven years. Halfway through that time, this prince will become possessed by Satan, set up an image in their temple, and declare himself God.
This is scripture, not any sort of indoctrination that you yourself are exempt from.
Why would God want to “finish you off”, when he has said he “is not willing that any should perish”? God’s wrath is reserved for those who have decided to reject Jesus. There is no fear in this for those who have accepted him. So I oppose all the fearmongering here.
Loss of faith is only going to happen to those whose “faith” was shallow; see Jesus’ parable of the seeds and sower. Christians have suffered as long as there have been Christians, and even today many of them are tortured and martyred for the faith. But this is not the wrath of God, rather the expected treatment in Satan’s kingdom on earth, which has been the case since the fall of man. We are expatriots living in a foreign land. But a time is coming when God will have had enough of this evil kingdom and wreak vengeance upon it. Those who belong to Jesus will not suffer the wrath of God.
Christ is revealed in the spirit not in the flesh
=======
Satan despises the flesh (creation). Like all good Christian Zionists and other assorted anti-racists of the plantation farm.
I will try to politely answer since I was raised and taught a Pre-Trib Rapture. And I totally believed in a pre-trib rapture. Then I read & studied scripture and found out Jesus and the Apostles taught exactly the opposite of what I was taught!!! I was like what? Then I became as wise as a Serpent and learned the ways of my enemy. I studied those who opposed the gospel, and those who worshipped Satan….. Blavosky, Crowley, Anton Lavey, the Maosns etc.
It is no coincidence that Evolution, The Pre-Trib Rapture, The Thule Society,Mary Apparitions, all came about around the late 19th Century.
Likewise, In the early 20th Century, we had the creation of a Nation of Israel by Satanists & Fallen Angels appearing as Aliens. These are all acts orchestrated by Satan to prepare the World for his son Apollo. Did you know that if you drilled a hole thru the Earth at Mt Hermon (Where Enoch said they decended in Genesis 6:4) guess where you would come out? Roswell, NM!!!
The Pre-Trib deception is no small matter. Why? Because there is a GREAT deception coming aimed at weak Christians. Jesus said “You receive me not but one is coming in my name who you WILL receive”
Satan is hoping to catch believers in a trap, unprepared, both physically and spiritually. A Pre-Trib rapture completely disarms believers – “Tribulation? Judgment? Ha! Nope. I’m outta here!!!”
The Tribulation is a time of judgment and a time where the Father refines the Church of her impurities. The Church (Believers) do not avoid Judgment. Judgment BEGINS w/ the Church!!! See
1 PETER 4:17
2/3 of the Church will perish in the Tribulation – many because they lacked knowledge and were unprepared. See Zech 13:8-9
We are commanded to “Occupy until I return” see Luke 19:13 Christ tells you there is only two resurrections in Chapter 20 of Revelations and that “Blessed and Holy are those who are of the 1st Resurrection” Well then, when is it? Jesus tells you, it’s when He returns on the LAST DAY….not 7 yrs or 42 months or pre-wrath but THE LAST DAY. See John 6:39,40,44,54
“I pray Father that you DO NOT remove my people from the Earth but that you protect them from the coming evil” JOHN 17:15
“The righteous shall NEVER be removed from the Earth; it’s the wicked that shall be removed” Proverbs 10:30
“The wicked shall be severed from among the just” MT 13:49
The two most important parables for the church today is the Parable of the 10 Virgins (Prepare) & the parable of the Tares (DNA) in Matthew chapter 13.
Tribulation is coming so we need to put on the full armor of God and we CAN make it thru. Our Father loves us and can & will protect us if you have enough faith.
I appreciate your attempt to answer kindly. But as kindly as I can express them, here are some objections I have to your comment.
“And I totally believed in a pre-trib rapture. Then I read & studied scripture and found out Jesus and the Apostles taught exactly the opposite of what I was taught”
I have studied the scriptures for over four decades, and prophecy more than most other topics. My belief in the pre-trib Rapture has only gotten stronger as a result.
“It is no coincidence that Evolution, The Pre-Trib Rapture, The Thule Society,Mary Apparitions, all came about around the late 19th Century.”
I have debunked the “newcomer” theory over and over. This is poisoning the well, not sound reasoning. I get the pre-trib view FROM SCRIPTURE ALONE. I defend it with scripture alone. I believe it from scripture alone.
“Likewise, In the early 20th Century, we had the creation of a Nation of Israel by Satanists & Fallen Angels appearing as Aliens. ”
This, too, “came about” relatively recently, so by your logic against pre-trib, we should reject it. And have you never read Isaiah 66:8? “Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children.” And to connect this to Roswell, yet claim the pre-trib Rapture is wrong, is laughable in my opinion.
Argue from scripture alone, if you want to refute a teaching that comes from scripture alone. I have several articles here that you can read for answers to the rest of your objections. Here is a quick reference: http://www.fether.net/index.php?page=refuting-slander-against-the-pre-trib-rapture/
Ephraim used Alan Kurschner’s “Antichrist Before the Day of the Lord” which is an excellent reference. Anyone who reads it should agree with his conclusions – that many of us were taught about a pre-trib rapture, but that is not what the Bible says.
As for the eschatology of Jesus – the many references to watching for signs are for us to keep track of the heavens. From Genesis 1:14 on we are told to use the sun, moon, planets, and stars for signs. We are given so many astronomical clues… and once you know THAT is the filter through which to meaningfully interpret prophetic timing, everything falls into place. Think about some of the bizarre Bible commentary most people gloss over because it makes no sense to them – such as Jesus riding into Jerusalem on an ass and the foal of an ass. He rode in on two asses? It is a reference to two stars in Cancer, Asellus Australis and Asellus Borealis, known to the Greeks and Romans as “the two donkeys.” The ecliptic passes through them and once a year the sun (representing Christ) “rides” them – this is a clue to timing. Eventually I put many astronomical clues together and matched them up to other Bible clues and realized that the end times culminate in Christ’s wedding in the sky – when the sun, moon, and planets move in a way that “acts out” all the major steps of an ancient Jewish wedding ceremony in the right order. It is beautifully complex and so obvious once you compare the old wedding ceremony to the night skies of December 21-28, 2019.
Anyone interested should check out End Times and 2019
http://www.amazon.com/End-Times-2019-Calendar-Countdown/dp/1935487922
and even more clues specifically point to the mid-point of the final seven years on June 6, 2016. See
Antichrist 2016-2019
http://www.amazon.com/Antichrist-2016-2019-Mystery-Babylon-Caliphate/dp/1501025392
“many of us were taught about a pre-trib rapture, but that is not what the Bible says”
I believe what the Bible says, not blindly swallowing “what I was taught”. This is true of a vast number of pre-trib believers. YOUR OPINION of “what the Bible says” is only that, and nothing more. You could be wrong, you know, as could I. But we’re not arguing about what words should be in the Bible, so “what the Bible says” is no argument at all.
Please see the link I gave to my summary defense of the pre-trib Rapture.
Why do so called Christians debate and unbelieve God’s already established Word? It is said in the Holy Word that Christians are not appointed to suffer God’s wrath. It is established that God will gather His people from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. Regardless of how the Lord God does this, He will do it at just the right time, but to deny He could do this is plain foolishness! Stop listening to nonsense that says there will be no rapture or the gathering of God’s elect! Whoever came up with this blasphemous propaganda is burning in the pits of hell unless they repented from this nonsense!
Mark 13:27 “And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 2-11 2For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, PEACE AND SAFETY; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4But ye, BRETHEN, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us WATCH and be sober. 7For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of FAITH AND LOVE; and for an HELMET, THE HOPE OF SALVATION. 9For God HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to OBTAIN SALVATION by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11Wherefore COMFORT YOURSELVES TOGETHER, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
If Donovan and HumanBeing is right, I beg God to send me straight to hell. Nobody will force me to believe anything based on fear of hell. That is how strong my faith is, I ask if you dare do the same? God has shown me the way out of fear and I will obey what ever is planned for me. To get me on this track I will call a rapture, because my life has been flipped upside down and I didnt beg to stay in this world. God got me on my feet and gave me good health. It would have no meaning if I was lifted just to get dragged to hell in the end. Dont scare the kids, God has no wrath, I have wrath, man has wrath. God helped me out of wrath. Lets build a better world together. I want as many as possible on our journey and I am sure God will make me stay for a while and I am sure there is room for more than Christians.
Paul talked of rapture but he couldnt say if his body was lifted, he had visions. You will stay with me here on earth. I am sorry! 144000 limestones, 144000 illuminated masons, follow their doctrine if you like.
You said it first guy/gal. You should be afraid of hell, you act like you are better than God, even after He restored you to health. I am not trying to scare you, I am only stating God’s Word that we are not appointed to His coming wrath, but to receive the promise of SALVATION. If you are alright with God, then what’s your beef? This is not fear mongering, only if you are not living in Jesus Christ, then you will have something to fear. As Christians we are to COMFORT YOURSELVES TOGETHER, and EDIFY one another. All I hear is antichristian rhetoric or twisting of Scripture here on BIN. It is refreshing to hear someone actually trying to present the truth purely from the Holy Spirit.
Worship Jesus!!!
“And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.” -Matthew 8:2
“While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.” -Matthew 9:18
“Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.” -Matthew 14:33
“Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.” -Matthew 15:25
“Then came to him the mother of Zebedee’s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.” -Matthew 20:20
“And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.” -Matthew 28:9
“And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.” -Matthew 28:17
“And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit…But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him” -Mark 5:2, 6
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/worship_jesus.htm
Did Jesus ever say the exact words “I am God?”
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
http://carm.org/religious-movements/islam/did-jesus-ever-say-exact-words-i-am-god
Dreamwalker,
I have spent many years speaking out against what I call “fire insurance”. You can’t frighten or threaten someone into a relationship with God. The “good news” is that Jesus rose from the dead, and whoever puts their trust in him alone will be reconciled to God. It’s a simple matter of choosing which of two realms or “kingdoms” you want to spend eternity in. We are not in a position to make our own, or choose a third way; it’s God or Satan. And since Satan has had control of the world since Adam and Eve basically handed him the title deed to the world, it’s been hellish. So salvation is all about whether you want citizenship in God’s kingdom instead. And it’s free.
So I have no clue how you lumped me in with the people who use hate and fear. Once again, the wrath of God is for people who do evil, who reject good. I made that very clear.
And trust me, you wouldn’t like hell, unless you like the world the way it is.
Also: Paul wasn’t talking about the rapture when he spoke of his trip or vision to heaven. Totally different context.
Then I will ask you where Jesus says believing in him as God and worship of him will give salvation.
I use Jesus teachings to understand Gods will and how to live my life. Tell me where Jesus says he is God or even Messiah or Christ. Tell me where Paul talks of rapture other than his visions of the third heaven. Please!
I think of hell as my life before I met God. I was walking around in fear and was thinking all this hell on earth could only mean there was no God. But I got answers. Today I can walk around with no fear and I see the hell I came from. I dont want anyone to stay in that place.
I have also changed my view on evil. I know there are spirits turning man into doing evil. If Jesus cast out demons and chased them out of people, how can I judge these people and say they are evil. Could I kill them and say it was Gods wrath? Wouldnt that make me evil? So the Bible tells me posessed humans do evil even when they think they are doing Gods plan. I must say I have had wrath against America, Muslims, Jews and the rich, but that wrath is my enemy and God wants me to reach out and help instead of hunting them down. I am not more precious than any other being to God. We are brothers and sisters, but I must admit its a challenge sometimes. People I look at as evildoers are also good in some ways. They care for their family and friends. They dont care about me, thats all. Maybe someone told them they were Gods chosen ones and look at me as dirt, then they are deceived, nothing else.
“Then I will ask you where Jesus says believing in him as God and worship of him will give salvation.”
http://www.fether.net/index.php?page=2005/09/01/2005-09-01-did-jesus-claim-to-be-god/
I agree that we must start with Jesus and work out from there. And this Jesus was worshiped as his birth, worshiped by his disciples, and worshiped after his resurrection from the dead: “At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow…”. Or read the book of Hebrews for how Jesus is no mere angel but God Himself; see also John 1:1-2.
I do not walk around in fear, but in love and gratitude. The reason is because I believe Jesus rose from the dead and I trust him alone to reconcile me to my Creator. The reason there is hell on earth, as I already explained, is because Satan’s been running it, and will continue until Jesus returns to reclaim it. And when he does, as the scriptures day, he will “rule with an iron rod”, i.e., zero tolerance for sin. If you were walking around in fear before, someone told you a lie about what it means to be reconciled to God and adoped as his child.
There certainly are evil spirits, but we can only blame ourselves for our choices. There is such a thing as righeous anger, because as I explained before, love for enemies is hate for friends. Love demands justice for the oppressed.
The true Christian has compassion for the lost and loves them without approving of sin. As Jesus said, “Go, and sin no more”, and to one person he healed he said, “And stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you!”
God is love, but he is also holy, and holiness requires purity, and purity means zero tolerance for sin. Mercy is shown to those who ask for it and resolve to stop sinning, because out of love for God they want to please him.
Well, I asked where Jesus said it himself. I agree the word became flesh thru Jesus, but thats because he denied himself in service of the will of God. That makes him the only true prophet. But he had his moments of doubt and temptations of the devil. How can God have doubts and be tempted by the devil? Paul was no god, his stories are in the Bible, why do you say the Bible was written by God?
If Jesus wrote the Bible, then I would say it was the word of God, but not that Jesus was God.
Where does Jesus claim to be God or Christ?
“Well, I asked where Jesus said it himself. ”
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 8:58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
“I agree the word became flesh thru Jesus, but thats because he denied himself in service of the will of God. That makes him the only true prophet. ”
Jesus is no mere prophet or human being, not even an angel, but God Himself:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
“But he had his moments of doubt and temptations of the devil. ”
He had no moments of doubt. Temptation is not doubt.
“How can God have doubts and be tempted by the devil?
He cannot have doubts, but he can be tempted ***as a mortal human being***. Jesus was always God and always will be, but he “took on human form” at a point in time (Phil. 2:5-11).
“Paul was no god, his stories are in the Bible, why do you say the Bible was written by God?”
Paul never claimed to be God, but he was commissioned and trained by Jesus Himself. The other apostles would have outed him as a fraud if this had not been true. In fact, they were skeptical of his conversion at first.
Biblical inspiration was never claimed to be by the hand of God holding the pen, but rather the words of God were recorded by human beings. What God wanted written was written, and the proof is in the fulfillment of prophecy. When we call the Bible “the Word of God”, we’re talking about the origin of the words or their authorized transmission. Jesus quoted the Old Testament as having the authority of God, and I’ll trust Him to know whether it was.
“If Jesus wrote the Bible, then I would say it was the word of God, but not that Jesus was God.”
The Gospels record the teachings and actions of Jesus, and he and all his disciples make it clear that he is to be worshiped as God. They were convinced by his control over the sea and wind, his healing of the sick, his raisin of the dead, and his own resurrection. And only the One who is both God and Man could reconcile God and Man.
“Where does Jesus claim to be God or Christ?”
I’ve already answered this more than once. “Before Abraham was, I am”.
John chapter 8 only confirms what I say about Jesus denying himself not to be honored himself or in glory. He and his father as one doesnt mean he is God, just the same will. The words I heard, the one who sent me. I will not judge, but the father. Before Abraham, I am. Jesus saying what God wants him to doesnt make him God, does it? The father of Jesus is your father and everybody elses father, Jesus didnt mean they had a different father, then his father would not be allmighty, would he?
“John chapter 8 only confirms what I say about Jesus denying himself not to be honored himself or in glory. ”
He is speaking as a human being in that passage. What then do you do with his statement, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” in John 17:5? Shared glory means equality in being.
“He and his father as one doesnt mean he is God, just the same will. ”
You can claim this, but that doesn’t make it a fact. I’ve given several passages that say otherwise. Jesus was worshiped at birth, by his disciples, and after his resurrection, and nothing in any part of the NT says that he was only human. In fact, at his conception the angel said that God would be his father. You have to reject the virgin birth to say otherwise, and call the gospel writers liars for saying God was his father. Even Jesus’ enemies recognized that calling himself the Son of God made him equal with God (John 5:18).
Accept Jesus as God or not; the facts have been presented.
Read the whole chapter 17 and you will see that all humans and all creation is one with God. This world has seperated us from God and before it began we were all one. See 17:21. When all humans loving their neibours as themselves, then its according to Gods will. Thats what he preached. His disciples called him rabbi, he is my teacher and messenger. Only God is God, no human walking on earth is God, but his soul is from God and his word can be from God. He never said he was God, if he did I would throw the Bible out of the window, thats satanism. The world will be one with God after the seperation is over, we will have to cooperate. I can understand atheists reject Jesus if you portray him as God, we are all equal. Jesus gave up his will to God doing what was best for mankind. He showed the way, the light in the dark world. Not to be worshipped but to be followed as he told his followers to deny themselves and pick up their crossses even if it means torture and pain and death.
When our journey ends HumanBeing our souls will return to God. Without the illusions of this world we will see truth as we return. God lives within us as human beings have soul and spirit. Follow your true heart and you are doing Gods will and not illusions of this world. Jesus told us his brothers and sisters were the ones doing Gods will, he even left his earthly family outside the house. Doing mans will was worship of the devil, doing Gods will meant you were a son of God. Its just a saying, not to be taken literally. We are all one, but illusions of the material world has seperated us. I dont claim anything, its written in the Bible by his messenger.
Matthew 1: 23…they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
1 Tim.3:16 “God was manifested in the flesh”
John 8: 24…if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Jesus Appears to Thomas
…27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
Jesus never denied being God when Thomas called Him “my Lord and my God”
Accept Jesus as God or not; the facts have been presented, Yet again !
Pre tribers have no problem with the Full Gospel “as it is written” even Matthew 24, The Full Gospel in context can and does show a rescue of the righteous prior to the Great Tribulation aka Jacobs trouble, to claim that the synagog refers to Ecclesia = CHURCH and thereby Church means the Synagog to prove your point, well what can I say, If you won’t accept “as it is written” then so be it ?, your entitled to your story.but its not “as it is written”
No an Earthquake is an Earthquake a synagog a synagog; Now if it makes sense with commonsense use it, no need for another explanation !?, as it fits with the other sheep who turn to the savior after the rapture (Tribulation Saints) and they are delivered up to the Synagogues,(Jacobs trouble (Israels messianic new believers) “as it is written”, the word chose synagog because the chosen Bride from the churches is GONE “as it is written”.
God knows how to rescue the righteous, aka Noah and Lot…GOD GAVE THESE (TWO) EXAMPLES as a WITNESS to his truth. (2 is witness for a conviction)
Shall Not The Judge Of All The Earth Do Right? , Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?”
PTR views are upheld and will not be disappointed, “as it is written” let it be.
Maranatha
I have no idea what you are talking about. I never wrote that a church equals a synagogue.
by analogy a Christian church: – assembly, congregation, synagogue. This is a quote from Strong’s Greek Dictionary.
I hope you read the Bible better than you can read the context of a post.
I know why you used that analogy and that was to impute that the bride is thrown into the tribulation which supports your eschatological expectation as its in keeping with your own interpretation keeping it in CONTEXT with your story, which then allows you, your backup (shots)comments that…… PTRs will be disappointed.
I disagree with this and so does what is written regarding your outcome, as I’ve pointed out.
The past 69 weeks of Daniel were full years regarding ISRAEL, So commonsense says the last 1 week, will be about ISRAEL 1 week = 7 years this occurs after the fullness of the gentiles has come in (Bride) AT THE BEGINNING as Judgement starts in the house of God FIRST, Rev: Before Antichrist is revealed Rev 6:2
jesus said he was a prophet.
57 And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
God’s Chosen Servant
15 Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. A large crowd followed him, and he healed all who were ill. 16 He warned them not to tell others about him. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
18 “Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19 He will not quarrel or cry out;
no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,
till he has brought justice through to victory.
21 In his name the nations will put their hope.”[b]
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Deny your own will and be son or daughter of God. One in God.
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
And believing Jesus is God will take you to heaven?
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him
Philippians 2:5
LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Jesus is equal with GOD as…… he is GOD
Stand still and know that I AM ..=..GOD Psalm 46:10
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, ” I AM the resurrection and the life”.
Is it a paradox when Ebola is taken as Gods judgement on America through shemitah when 3 out of four infected Americans believed in Jesus as God? The fourth one believed in himself as God?
Jesus cast out demons housed in humans. Meaning humans have good souls but are influenced by demons to do evil. Stop spreading hate and fear, turn the other cheek as you might be hated in these times, keep faith in the loving and forgiving God as Jesus taught and not the war lord of the OT.
Jesus told us not to be alarmed. Fear, hate and lust for power and money are tools for demons to control the world.